microphone on table background

Episode 77: Colin le Duc

Listen now:
Full transcript:

Jon Powers:

Welcome to Experts Only Podcast, sponsored by CleanCapital. You can learn more at cleancapital.com. I’m your host, Jon Powers. Each week, we explore the intersection of energy, innovation, and finance with leaders across the industry. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jon Powers:

Welcome back to Experts Only. I’m your host Jon Powers. Today we speak with Colin le Duc, who is one of the original founding partners of Generation Investment Management. Colin has a incredible track record in sustainable investing, having been at Sustainable Asset Management in Zurich and with Total in Paris, but he’s also really been on the front cutting edge of ESG investing. And in our conversation, we talk about the end of incrementalism and how the future of sustainable investing is exciting and bright, the groundwork is laid, and the capital is continuing to flow. I hope you enjoy the conversation. Colin, thanks so much for joining us at Experts Only.

Colin le Duc:

Great. Well, thanks so much for having me. I really look forward to talking about sustainability, sustainable investing, and generation.

Jon Powers:

You obviously have an incredible passion in this space, but I sort of want to step back and ask what got you interested in sustainability, and climate, and the environment?

Colin le Duc:

Yeah, well, I have a bit of an eclectic upbringing, actually. I was one of these children that grew up all over the world and traveled a lot as a kid and saw lots of things. And I was just reflecting on that, and one of my seminal events was living in South Africa during apartheid. And actually, the person I was named after, my grandfather, Colin Bennett, was actually a shadow minister in the Liberal Democratic Party that was the opposition to the apartheid government.

Colin le Duc:

And so, growing up in a family like that made me very aware of social justice issues in particular. And what was interesting, that was also the beginning of the time of the divestment movement, because a lot of investors and businesses were pulling out of South Africa because of apartheid. So that got me onto the idea that maybe capital could be used for a force for good.

Colin le Duc:

I then went to a boarding school in the UK, which was actually run by a bunch of Benedictine monks, actually. So we basically had to focus a lot on theology and ethics. And I had to do that at A level, which is the high school equivalent in the UK, which I’m sure you’re aware. And that really taught me a lot about environmental justice as well, and environmental responsibility through ethics and morality. And that sort of led me into really understanding that really, ultimately, climate was something that I wanted to focus in on and got very interested in it at undergraduate level and beyond.

Jon Powers:

Yeah. And when did you start to really identify as you’re going through this transition?

Colin le Duc:

As far as climate?

Jon Powers:

Yeah. When did you realize that it was… It seemed like the… I asked, I think, about the period you guys started Generation, which we’ll come back to, in 2004, climate change has been there and there’s been undertones of conversation in the academic community, but really from a cultural perspective, it didn’t really come to light until into the nineties and early 2000s.

Colin le Duc:

Yeah. I mean, I was very fortunate. At undergrad level, I did an internship with Total for a year in Paris. That taught me a lot about low carbon and the challenges of energy, et cetera. And that was in 1993. And then I went back to university for a year to graduate, and then they offered me a job in London, which I took because I thought the energy companies, the large international energy companies, would lead the way to a low carbon future.

Colin le Duc:

And then that was, I started work in ’94. And I very quickly realized, actually, that the big successful incumbents were actually not going to accelerate the transition to net zero and low emissions as quickly as the scientists were telling us we needed to. And I also subsequently had a series of friends who were working in the city of London at the time, and were meeting CEOs of all sorts because they held shares in those companies.

Colin le Duc:

And that got me very turned on to the idea that investing is a very good way to influence outcomes of companies. And if you really want to drive sustainability, then being a shareholder is actually a pretty good idea and a very good leverage point. And that got me thinking about the power of capital and investing as a force for good.

Jon Powers:

Interesting. You’ve built an amazing career around that, and I think we’re really at an inflection point today, where ESG is not just a term anymore. It’s becoming a mainstream initiative that’s bringing some significant capital to market. So I want to talk about the founding of Generation, flashing back to 2004. By the way, were you still in London at the time? Had you made it to San Francisco?

Colin le Duc:

Yeah. No, no. I was still in London. Yeah. And I was in London for the first 15 years of Generation, and just been out in California for the last few years.

Jon Powers:

I didn’t realize that. Okay. Excellent. And yeah, you guys have a pretty major London operation.

Colin le Duc:

Well, that’s our headquarters. That’s what we were founded. So yeah.

Jon Powers:

Yeah. So what led to the founding of Generation? I mean, you guys were a little bit before the time, which is amazing, that you guys are visionary in terms of figuring out where to put significant capital at work in solving these climate challenges.

Colin le Duc:

Well, I think it was a series of very serendipitous events. I mean, timing was very much a driver. I think there were a number of the founders that were at a point in their careers where they either had outlived their current institutions or were looking to do something on their own and were looking to do something that was a hundred percent dedicated to sustainable investing.

Colin le Duc:

And there was a series of relationships that really came together. I was working for a fund in Switzerland called Sustainable Asset Management that did a lot of work around the Dow Jones Sustainability Index. And that had attracted quite a bit of interest from both Al Gore, who’s one of our founders and our chairman, as well as Goldman Sachs actually, which is where two of the other founders, David Blood and Mark Ferguson came from.

Colin le Duc:

And we all sort of connected and got together and talked a little bit about the shared mission and vision to create a dedicated boutique focused purely on sustainable investing, where you would put the disciplines of investing in finance, in terms of world-class investing in finance capability, really on par with world-class sustainability expertise, and put those two things together in a very integrated way. So we really found a generation on the principle of fully integrated sustainability into traditional asset management structures.

Colin le Duc:

And if you take David Blood as a senior partner and Al Gore as the chair, the two of them really epitomize what we were trying to do. And fusing those two worlds together was really a core part of the founding. So it felt like this idea was very much the right idea, and it took us a while to educate folks that sustainable investing is best practice and that we could generate better longterm returns by investing sustainably. So the first few years, it took us a lot of advocacy and education work of the investor base to achieve what we’ve achieved.

Jon Powers:

Yeah. I want to come back to that. Because I feel like the time that you guys launched this, today, Q1 of 2020, before COVID, record ESG investing. And I think the trends are there, but you’re out raising from LPs when people are barely talking about this issue and you’re able to be successful. What was that like, cutting the teeth of a lot of these investors and bringing them to the table?

Colin le Duc:

Well, we’re incredibly grateful for our clients’ support, in particular in those early days. And it does take a leap of faith from people to back a first-time fund of whatever, including our own. And I think the cast of characters that we had around the table at the founding was particularly powerful. And what we’re talking about here is common sense, long-term investing.

Colin le Duc:

So it was not as if we were talking about a black box methodology or anything of that nature. We were just very simply talking about a common sense worldview, which basically talked about sustainability being a driver of change in the economy, and picking a small number of very high quality companies and owning them for the term would outperform the market. So we weren’t selling anything that was particularly complicated.

Colin le Duc:

It was just an innovation relative to the rest of the market at the time, which was to take ESG seriously as a risk and return perspective that would help us generate better longterm returns. So I think we had a lot of innovative groups that backed us at the beginning and we have moved on from there. And obviously, as the track record has built up over the years, that has helped us bring in bigger clients, pension funds, other foundations, charities, that kind of client base.

Jon Powers:

And as the overall market around sustainability has as improved and the understanding of it, how have you seen your investing thesis change or not change over that time?

Colin le Duc:

The fundamental philosophy and principles of what we’re doing have not changed. I think the notion that taking a highly focused approach to investing, so we do public equity and private equity investors, so we feel we have a level of expertise around equity investing, and taking an approach to fundamental, bottom-up, research driven stock selection, and putting that into a long-term investing context, that has not changed at all.

Colin le Duc:

I think what has evolved is the level of sophistication and judgment associated to how that asset selection process is going on. So I think the influence of ESG and the availability of information around ESG has actually come up a lot, and that has helped as well. And the specification and the nuance of the debate has come a very, very long way.

Colin le Duc:

But the fundamental philosophy and thesis of Generation remains very firmly that we are in the early stages of a transition to a sustainable economy, and that that secular shift is affecting every aspect of the global economy and is playing out over the long term. And that presents enormous investment opportunity if you are granted the license from your clients to take a long-term perspective. And that has basically remained very consistent over the last 15-16 years that we’ve been in existence.

Jon Powers:

So for audience members that may not be as familiar with Generation, can you talk a little bit about some of the companies and some of the investments you’ve made along the way? Because you guys do cover a variety of different fields here helping to identify or helping to hopefully solve the climate crisis.

Colin le Duc:

Sure, sure. So just to remind folks, Generation manages somewhere around $25-26 billion today, and that is split across four different investment strategies. So there are two public investment strategies, a global equity fund, and an Asian equity fund, and they are investing in mid to large cap public equity companies that aren’t listed, obviously, on stock exchanges. Then we have two private equity strategies, a growth equity fund, and then a long-term equity business.

Colin le Duc:

So I’m going to focus a little bit on the growth fund, because that’s where I spend most of my time personally, but I’m sure you can appreciate there are certain aspects of the public markets, so I can’t talk about specific companies. So I think if you look at the growth strategy in particular, we’ve got three legs to the semantic focus of that strategy, and that’s planetary health, human health, and financial inclusion. And those would be three core pillars to a sustainable solutions type investing strategy.

Colin le Duc:

And so if you look specifically within the planetary health dimension of that, we will look at companies, for example, that are enabling the transition to clean energy, for example, or sustainable mobility, or a sustainable food system. So if you just take a look, for example, at the energy space, we will look at grid integration opportunities, we will look at anything that will help the scale up of renewables. We’ll look at things like pay-as-you-go energy access in emerging markets. So one of the companies in the portfolio is a company called M-KOPA SOLAR that does that in East Africa, for example.

Colin le Duc:

We’ll also touch on energy efficiency and building efficiency and things like that in the energy complex. If you look at the transition to sustainable mobility, we’re obviously extremely focused on the electrification mobility, so that would be expressed through investments in an electric technology company that enables electric buses and other types of form factors, a company called Proterra, that you may be familiar with.

Colin le Duc:

We’ll also look at swappable battery systems for electric motorbikes. We’re invested in a business in Taiwan called Gogoro that does that. We’ll also look at things like fleet optimization. So, how do you drive efficiency across the trucking market? So we are invested in a business called Convoy, for example, that runs a digital freight marketplace that enables much better matching of loads with trucks to drive efficiency in that market.

Colin le Duc:

And then if you look at something like the food system, we’re obviously focused on anything that is enabling a much more sustainable food system, and that would range from food waste in restaurants, through companies like Toast, for example, that provide ERP and software systems to restaurant owners. We’ll look at precision ag-tech, so we’ll look at companies like Cebo that deliver highly precise insights to farmers for yield prediction on farms.

Colin le Duc:

We’ll look at, obviously, the alternative protein space, which has got quite a bit of attention. We’re invested in a business with Nature’s Fynd. It is a microbe-based protein for meat substitutes, et cetera. So those are just a few of them, very much technology, innovation driven businesses that are accelerating the transition to sustainability across core areas like energy, mobility, and food.

Jon Powers:

I do want to get into some of the underwriting, or not the underwriting, the education you guys do and look ahead. Before doing that, where in the underwriting process for these companies, obviously you’re doing traditional classic underwriting, but where do you start to layer in the sustainability piece of that?

Colin le Duc:

Sure. So one of the founding principles of Generation is the integration of sustainability into the investing process. And what that means is that we integrate that in every aspect of the investment process. So Generation starts with research. So we do a lot of primary research, which is sort of epitomized and delivered through what we refer to as roadmaps, which are essentially sector deep dives that look at what is going on in a sector, and explicitly recognizes the environmental and social drivers in that sector, alongside quite traditional drivers of change, and then we’ll identify.

Colin le Duc:

And in that, so the sustainability is integrated by looking at environmental and social drivers alongside traditional drivers, and then we’ll identify which companies are well positioned. We will then get to know them. And if we do want to really look at underwriting and investment in these companies, we will then drive to the next level of the investment process, which is really about evaluating the quality of the business, the quality of the management team, and evaluation and the security. And in each of those, we will integrate what we refer to as longterm success factors or sustainability factors in our definition of quality.

Colin le Duc:

So within the management quality space, we will look at, is the company taking care of all it’s stakeholders properly? What is the culture of the company? Is it truly managed for the longterm, for the benefit of all stakeholders? Those kinds of questions. Equally, on the business quality level, we will look at questions like the durability of returns. We will look at things like, is the company providing something that society truly needs and is system positive, for example, as a product and service as it gets built up. And then when you’re thinking about the evaluation of the security, we will very much look at aspects around the sustainability of the competitive advantage period.

Colin le Duc:

So, how long will this company be able to generate the kind of returns we think it can generate, which is often just an expression of the sustainability and the competitive advantage of a company. And then there’s a whole bunch of stuff that we do post ownership, as well, in terms of engagement with companies, both public and private, which is a very, very important aspect of what we do.

Colin le Duc:

So it’s really about integrating sustainability right across the investment process, rather than having a separate group, for example, that is doing this work. Our analysts do all of the work. They’re kind of super human. They do all of the financial analysis, all of the research, all of the analysis together to get a very complete and holistic view so that we can invest with very high conviction.

Jon Powers:

Amazing. And looking back, I was just reading some of the history of Generation, you guys have helped define some of the metrics around sustainability as a whole, where we’re now getting into a point where folks have some common metrics to measure off of as an industry. What was the importance, whether it be helping to lay out the sustainable accounting, the SASB standards, for instance, or really helping to define impact investing as a whole? I mean, when you look at when you started to where we are today, impact investing was hardly a nomenclature at the time, and now it’s its own genre. Why did you guys, as leaders, feel that it was really important to engage in those conversations and help develop those metrics?

Colin le Duc:

Well, first and foremost, we’re a mission driven business. So we are trying to prove the investing case for sustainable investing, and we are trying to advocate for sustainable capitalism broadly speaking. So we actually allocated a certain proportion of our profits directly into the Generation Foundation to really try and perpetuate this way of thinking across capital markets.

Colin le Duc:

So we felt that part of our mission was essentially ecosystem development and field building. And there’s obviously a level of self-interest in that. I think it was actually really about driving our mission, and we’re incredibly proud of the founding work that we’ve done with many of these organizations to get them going. And they’re now scaling up and helping mainstream some of this thinking across the market.

Colin le Duc:

Because I think one of the big dangers of what is going on with the mainstreaming of ESG and sustainable responsible investing is the patchwork approach that the market is taking at the moment. Some people are implementing with a lot of rigor and integrity, others are not. And I think that’s an important part of the maturation of the market, if you like, as it comes to ESG and sustainable investing, that there is rigor and integrity to what is happening. And so, we want to share our thinking, and we’re very open book about that, as to how we do that and what we think should happen in terms of some of these definitions.

Jon Powers:

Yeah, I think about whether it be the SASB standards or folks… I’ve got a good friend who works in the corporate risk space, who doesn’t come from climate at all, but now has a piqued interest in it, and him understanding the metrics that have been developed and the importance of having that baseline to educate himself. And you get folks who have been in these industries without the sustainability lens now understanding how to implement it, it will be that much more important to growing the space you’re going for in the next 10 years.

Jon Powers:

So I do want to talk about, you guys have an amazing Sustainability Trends Report. I think this is the fourth version that you guys have published. I’m going to ignore for a second, the COVID impact, which is obviously hard to ignore in 2020. But what trends have you seen over the last four years of publishing this report that are important to pull out?

Colin le Duc:

Yeah. And I appreciate you highlighting that, Jon. The Sustainability Trends Report is an annual attempt to really just put a bit of a stake in the ground as to what we’re seeing with regards to the state of the sustainability transition. And it’s really mining a lot of what Generation is doing at the investment process level and trying to put it into the public domain. It is also attempting to use very objective data sets to just demonstrate what is happening with sustainability and the sustainability transition.

Colin le Duc:

So this is indeed the fourth year that we’ve published it. And to your question about different trends beyond COVID, I think maybe three worth highlighting. I think in the healthcare space, I think we’ve seen a massive uptick in the trend to highly personalized healthcare. So that is obviously driven by a lot of technology adoption and is also increasingly enhanced by some of the remote capabilities that we now have with regards to healthcare. So there’s quite a bit of work around that and how that relates as well to accessing healthcare for underprivileged people. So that’s one major trend.

Colin le Duc:

Another may be the commitments that are being made to net zero by the corporate community that have been following a lot of the government commitments that have been made. That has been fascinating to watch over the last two or three years. It seems like companies are sort of stumbling over themselves to make these net zero commitments. I think that is a real trend and worth keeping an eye on.

Colin le Duc:

And then I think the whole debate around the future of work, which has been accelerated and influenced by COVID, but previously was a very hot area of debate around sustainability. So what does meaningful work mean? What does a minimum wage mean? What does automation mean for jobs? All of that work and defining how work looks like going forward has an enormous impact on the social dimensions related to sustainability. And that is a trend that we’ve been tracking within the STR report for the last few years as well.

Jon Powers:

I love the recent version. I’m just going to quote it for a second because I think it’s phenomenal. We believe the action and momentum triggered by events in 2020 will be powerful catalysts for sustainability going forward. First of all, why do you guys believe that? And then second, how do you use, then, this tool within… Do you use this within underwriting going forward? Is there a lot of market research that’s pulled into these sustainability reports that you’re able to then use as a lens to look at companies?

Colin le Duc:

Yeah, I mean, I think, just to coming to your second part of your question first, the STR is really an expression of what is happening in the investment process. So it’s actually, the STR is informed by the investment process rather than the other way around. So it’s really a summary, if you like, of some of the thinking that you see if you were to look beneath the hood of Generation, in terms of the roadmaps, in particular, that I referred to earlier.

Colin le Duc:

But to your first part of the question, how is COVID accelerating sustainability? I think it’s really along two dimensions. One is cultural, where I think COVID has demonstrated the futility of much of our activity pre-COVID, be it hedonistic consumption, and how that just does not lead to happiness, frankly, or to the very unnecessary amounts of business travel that was going on, for example.

Colin le Duc:

And so, what has been very interesting is that a lot of sustainability advocates have been saying this stuff for a long time, stop traveling so much, stay more local, live a more humble life, you don’t need to be so asset heavy. All of these things have been massively accelerated by COVID. So we think the behavior change associated to sustainability and a sustainable lifestyle has really been demonstrated through COVID.

Colin le Duc:

Obviously, there are other sides to that story in terms of the abruptness of the lockdowns and the effect that has had on the social capital in society, and within families, and in communities, and et cetera, and in companies, and whatever. But I think that that notion of just shining a light on how crazy our lifestyles were pre-COVID is a big part of it. I’ll come to the second bit in a second, but you’ve got a question?

Jon Powers:

Yeah. I want to follow up with… That’s a fascinating view, and I feel like… So I wrote a piece earlier this year, From Greta to the Board Room, looking at 2019 and how there’s both this cultural growth in the discussion of climate as an issue, of course, and this, as you mentioned in the second part of the report, amazing trends happening in the corporate leadership perspective.

Jon Powers:

But then, how do we take what you just laid out as the drive, on an individual level, around sustainability, and communicate that out to folks, so they understand the impacts of the life changes they’ve made this year on climate and sustainability? I think people may not think of it that way, so how do we take advantage of this situation we’re in and communicate out to folks beyond those of us that track these issues, that this is actually really important for climate and sustainability?

Colin le Duc:

Yeah, well, I think a lot of people have actually realized the silver linings relative to their own wellbeing within… It’s sort of like this weird mix of, on one level, people feel a lot of mental anguish, but on another level, they feel a higher level of life satisfaction. So, I think highlighting that is important. I think also, as you may know what’s happened to emissions this year globally, but initially in March-April, they dropped by about 8-10%.

Colin le Duc:

They have come back pretty strongly, mainly because a lot of the restarts of many global economies has actually been a bit of a brown restart more than a green restart, unfortunately, where firing up coal plants is quicker than building a whole bunch of renewables. So that has happened, unfortunately. So the emissions story this year is going to be a bit of a wash actually, by the look of it, in terms of how we’re powering back.

Colin le Duc:

So I would just come to the second part of the answer around how does COVID accelerate sustainable trends. I would say the role of the public sector has been demonstrated in how, when governments want to act, they can, and they do at epic scale. So I think what that has said to me, anyway, is that it has shown how pathetic the attempts on climate have been.

Colin le Duc:

Because the governments are capable of doing what they’ve done on COVID, which is basically really directing society very aggressively and pumping loads of money into something. And it just shows you that, even though they understand that climate is an issue, they just have not acted at the same level of seriousness with regards to climate. And we think that will change. We think that will change. We think the pendulum is swinging quite aggressively to a much, much more public intervention with regards to dealing with the climate problem in particular.

Colin le Duc:

And that will come through Green New Deal type stuff, or, depending on who gets into the White House, different climate plans, all through to the EU recovery plan, and et cetera, which are all very green in the way they are approaching a recovery of the economy. So I think what it has shown is there are limits to market-based solutions to collective challenges, such as COVID, such as climate, and COVID is truly a dress rehearsal for climate. And I think that there’s a lot of positives to be taken out of that, in terms of the levers that government can actually pull.

Jon Powers:

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I really look at 2021 as a pretty… It’ll be really interesting, obviously, depending what happens in the White House race, but it could be a monumental, significant infrastructure investment that we’ve never seen before in this space if we take the right steps. So I do want to look ahead for a second before wrapping up. I like to talk a lot about 20… I have a thesis that the last 10 years are about setting the table for addressing climate, the next 10 years is about implementation and real action.

Jon Powers:

So I do want to step forward to 2030, but I’m just going to quote Morningstar here for a second, who looked at ESG investing during the trends, but also what’s happening here in our current recession and the positive story that’s actually to be told about how the returns continue to be positive in ESG investing. And we haven’t made it through a downturn yet, of course, but the trends are looking good. So looking at the work you guys have done since 2004, for you personally, it would be before that, what is the next… If you step forward to 2030 and look back, what does the next 10 years look like for ESG investing?

Colin le Duc:

Well, I think we’re coming to the end of the beginning of the mainstreaming of ESG. So I think there’s maybe three things to think about in the next 10 years. One is that the era of greenwashing, I think, is coming to an abrupt end. So there has been a lot of greenwashing, there’s a lot of focus by regulators on this right now. So I think that rigor of scrutiny around ESG claims for investors is going to be a major topic.

Colin le Duc:

Somewhat related to that is the second bit, which is reporting. So reporting will become mandatory on sustainability factors in a very serious way. And that is through the TCFD, through the EU taxonomy, through a whole bunch of other things. Because central banks in particular are trying to aggregate up an understanding of systemic climate risk. And they cannot manage central bank levers of change without understanding the level of risk that’s being run in the system. So they will be imposing that, so expect a lot more and a lot more rigorous reporting.

Jon Powers:

Do you feel like the standard is there in the US to accept that reporting?

Colin le Duc:

I think it’s coming. I think it’s coming. I think other areas of the world may be a little bit further ahead. But I think, obviously, the US, when it moves, it can move very quickly and is obviously such a powerful force in the global economy. And let’s not forget things like America’s pledge, where there’s so many businesses moving in this direction already, and states moving in this direction, and the innovation here is unparalleled, and et cetera. So there’s lots of very positive things to say about the US’s journey to reaching the Paris Agreement, despite their federal position currently.

Colin le Duc:

And I think the third thing is, I would say in the next 10 years for ESG is the notion of the end of incrementalism when it comes to transition risk. What I mean is a transition to a sustainable system. So, that is both in terms of transitions being imposed on us, through more extreme weather events, for example, shutting down economies like it’s done on the West coast of the US last week, et cetera, as well as transition risk being accelerated through marketplace changes or rule changes, shifting people to a much more transformational response to dealing in particular with climate, but other sustainability topics as well.

Colin le Duc:

So I think the notion that the markets are just going to be left to inch their way towards a sustainable system is basically naught. You can’t plan on that for the next decade I think there’s going to be very large, very profound changes, which will leave a lot of assets stranded that are not on the right side of history, and will accelerate the positive outcome from any other types of assets in economies.

Jon Powers:

I hope you’re right. I agree with you on the approach column. Thank you so much. And I’m going to end a question I ask everyone who comes on. But if you could go back to yourself, coming out of boarding school in London, and could sit down and, I guess in London, you probably could have a beer when you’re coming out of boarding school, what piece of advice would you give yourself?

Colin le Duc:

So, yeah. I think it would be… So I’m half Dutch actually. One of my favorite sayings in Dutch is, “Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen,” which basically means that you’ve always got no, but you can always get yes. So my advice to myself would be, “Don’t accept no, because, basically go out and have the courage of your conviction and keep asking for a yes.” So, that would be my advice to myself.

Jon Powers:

That’s amazing. Well, Colin, thank you so much for the time and thank you so much for joining us at Experts Only.

Colin le Duc:

I really appreciate it, Jon. Thanks a lot.

Jon Powers:

Thanks so much for joining us at Experts Only. Really lucky to have Colin on today and to really get an in-depth look at a little bit of the history of ESG and where things are going. I want to thank our producer, Carly Baton and thank the team at Generation Investment Management for helping to put this together. As always, you can find more episodes at cleancapital.com, and I look forward to continuing the conversation.

Jon Powers:

Thanks for listening in today’s conversation. Find more episodes on cleancapital.com, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe and leave us a five-star review. We look forward to continuing our conversation on energy, innovation, and finance with you.