Jon Powers (00:02):

Welcome back to Experts Only. I’m your host, Jon Powers. I’m the co-founder of Clean Capital and serve as President Obama’s chief Sustainability Officer. On this podcast, we explore solutions to climate change by talking to industry leaders about the intersection of energy, innovation and finance. You can get more episodes@cleancapital.com.

(00:29):

Welcome back to Experts only on your host, Jon Powers. And today we are talking with Jen Miller, who is the CEO of Renewable Energy, IPP, an Alaskan base renewable energy developer that we partner with the Clean Capital. Jen is leading a solar developer in Alaska, really creating the next frontier of opportunities. We’re going to talk a lot about the challenges of what they’re facing in Alaska and the opportunity that solar presents and how to really think about growing and scaling a company like renewable IPP in the current market. Jen and I are both going to be at Plus as part of the Anaheim effort in September. So if you want to meet with us, please reach out@cleancapital.com. You can always get more episodes@cleancapital.com. And as always, I hope you enjoy the conversation. Jen, thanks so much for joining me at Experts Only.

Jenn Miller (01:12):

Thanks so much, Jon. Great to be here.

Jon Powers (01:14):

Yeah. So first of all, I have to say you’re one of my favorite people in the solar industry, so I’m really excited to talk to you today. When we talk to people about the fact that we’re doing solar in Alaska, I think often we’re blowing people’s minds around the idea. So I want to get into all of that. But before we do, I want to get into you. How did you decide that this is a space you wanted to get into? You were born in Alaska, you have an engineering background, right? Is that

Jenn Miller (01:41):

Correct? That’s right, yeah. I’m a professional mechanical engineer. But yeah, I grew up in Eagle River, Alaska, just outside of Anchorage and went to school in Idaho, came back to the state, worked in oil and gas for almost 14 years.

Jon Powers (01:56):

And can we pause on that for a second? So people that don’t understand Alaska, how big is oil and gas as an industry? In Alaska?

Jenn Miller (02:03):

Oil and gas is the industry in Alaska, and that’s the base of our economy here. The North Slope pto, bay Oil Field is a world-class oil field, and it is a historic basin, and so it is a big deal. We have a 800 mile pipeline that goes from the northern part of the state all the way from the north to the southern part of the state, and that was built in the seventies and was the base of our economy and has been.

Jon Powers (02:32):

And then does it then get piped from there to the US or does it get logistically sent? How does it move from Alaska to other places?

Jenn Miller (02:40):

Right, so then out of Valdez, Alaska, there’s a port and oil ships to the western part west coast of the lower 48 and so to Washington and California, and they have refineries that are tuned specifically for North Slope crude.

Jon Powers (02:54):

Oh, interesting, interesting. Hence the Valdez oil smoke.

Jenn Miller (03:00):

And one thing that’s kind of interesting, just looking at our economy, when I started in oil and gas in 2006, Alaska’s North Slope oil production provided 11% of the US’ oil demand. And so we’re much lower than that now, but at the time we were very strategic part meeting the US energy demand, but that energy demand was shifting.

Jon Powers (03:25):

So growing up in Alaska, what led you to mechanical engineering? I always want to be a mechanical engineer. Or was it you were a tinkerer and got into this. What was the path?

Jenn Miller (03:38):

Oh, it’s kind of funny. So my parents worked in the school district and they actually have backgrounds in psychology and teaching, and I was really in

Jon Powers (03:47):

Paint a picture of what that community looks like size wise.

Jenn Miller (03:49):

Okay. So Eagle River is a town of 25,000 people and it’s more of a bedroom community outside of Anchorage. So it’s about 20 minutes from Anchorage, which is the largest city in the state with a population of around 300,000. And growing up, we didn’t really have big box stores. And I think that’s something that’s kind of neat about Alaska is you develop a lot of self-reliance, and that’s very much ingrained in our identity as a state of like, well, we’ll just figure this out with whoever’s around. It’s just kind of a natural thing of we don’t know who else is coming, so we might, it’s like you’ve got hands here, come over and help with

Jon Powers (04:31):

It.

Jenn Miller (04:32):

And my parents moved up here in the eighties, and so you form a community and almost like a pseudo extended family with your neighbors. And it’s a great upbringing because there’s a lot of time outdoors, a lot of hands-on experience. We have great schools because of all the oil income. We’ve had great funding for schools and teachers. And so that’s what brought my parents here. And I was into math and I think in practical applications. And so it wasn’t like I grew up knowing that I wanted to be an engineer or what that impact would be. And as I was looking at college and different things, I had some teachers and friends that said, Hey, especially, they’re like, Hey, as a woman, you could get some scholarship money to go do engineering

(05:24):

And looking at affordability. And so going into engineering, I didn’t quite know what it was. I didn’t really grow up around it, but in my intro to engineering class I was like, oh, this is really cool. It’s kind of like this MacGyver discipline where you’re like, oh, I got to figure, I have this problem I need to solve and I have these tools and how do I piece it together? And kind of how this comes around later. When I first got into engineering, it’s a lot about problem solving and using some ingenuity, but long-term looking at like, oh, and getting back to my parents’ roots of counseling and teaching and impact on community and wanting to have that broader impact. And so I think some of that is what led to, and we’ll get into that more, but led to starting the business.

Jon Powers (06:16):

Yeah, I definitely want to get to that more before we do though. When you’re in the oil and gas fields or in the oil and gas industry in Alaska, first of all, what was it like being a woman in that industry in Alaska?

Jenn Miller (06:30):

And it’s kind of interesting. So I worked the first seven years of my career in Alaska, and then I worked in the lower 48 out of Colorado for a few years and then came back to Alaska. And I have to say, I think I’ve been really lucky to work in Alaska, going back to that earlier part of, yes, I’m a woman, but up here, the male female difference isn’t as big because I think it’s literally like, oh, you have two hands get to work. We don’t have an option to be choosy here. And there was of course a difference when I worked a rotation on the North Slope as a facility engineer. And I think, and it’s majority male colleagues, some of it they just don’t know, oh, how much can I joke with her? And there’s this awkward integration period, but then they’re all secretly really protective of you. Like, oh,

Jon Powers (07:28):

I’m

Jenn Miller (07:28):

Like, I’m okay, we’re good. And I was 22, 23 when I worked on the North Slope, and so I was very young and early in my career, but in a lot of ways that played to my advantage because I could just go up and say, Hey, I don’t actually know what all these components are, or can we go walk this down together? Can you tell me what so I can try and help figure this, see what I can do to help? And so it was in some ways, the male male interaction can sometimes be like, oh, there’s maybe a approving of who knows how

Jon Powers (08:03):

Much. Yeah, you don’t want to prove it. You don’t know it. Yeah.

Jenn Miller (08:06):

And being a female, there’s really not a lot of expectations sadly, but in some ways it disarms the conversation and you can kind of formed just a ton of really great relationships with my North Slope colleagues. That’s amazing. And that field experience was just a foundational, and it’s followed through my whole career.

Jon Powers (08:28):

So through that process, at what point were you beginning to think, oh, we should start to move out of oil and gas into solar? What was your thinking there?

Jenn Miller (08:38):

Yeah, so my business partner and I, Chris Culbert, and then our other business partner, Sam Dennis, just happened to, we wanted to put solar on our houses about two

Jon Powers (08:48):

Years. And you guys were working together at BP at the time, at the oil and gas company, right? Yeah,

Jenn Miller (08:52):

That’s right. Yeah. We all worked together in oil and gas, and we had looked at putting solar on our houses a decade prior, so in the early two thousands, and it just didn’t make economic sense. It was so expensive at the time. And Chris was reading in, follows a lot of financial news and he is like, oh, hey, solar patent prices had really come down. This was in 2017. And so he is like, we should take a look at this and see if we could make it work. And we looked at it and then we actually got some quotes to just like, okay, what would it cost to have it installed on our house? Okay, well if we pay for that, it wouldn’t quite pencil out. So we’re all, we’re really into economics and finance. And so anyways, so

Jon Powers (09:35):

I pause for a second. Were they doing solar on residential rooftops in Alaska then? Or were you guys asking people who were like, well, we have no idea?

Jenn Miller (09:42):

No, there were residential installers. It wasn’t as mature anywhere near as mature as it was today, and it was a lot more expensive then. And so that’s what led us to, okay, well how much would it cost us to do it and how complicated is this? And so we did our own little design package.

Jon Powers (09:58):

Yeah, engineering brain. Yeah,

Jenn Miller (10:01):

Exactly. And our DI

Jon Powers (10:03):

Problem solve this. Yeah,

Jenn Miller (10:05):

DIY passion of like, well, what kit can we buy? And yeah, we put solar on our roof, just five panels. And we thought, man, this works in oil and gas. It’s a very high hazard industry. You’re dealing with highly combustible flammable materials. There’s a lot of safety concerns. And the folks that do that are very good at it. And when we saw solar, it was like, this produces energy and all you have to do is plug and play. This is awesome

(10:39):

Also. And it was economically competitive and we were all really passionate about long-term future for the environment and everything. And so we said we’d love to have a bigger impact. And we talked about do we coach other people? We wrote a little DIY guide to give friends and neighbors and do we try and have an impact that way? And our project management background said, Hey, you’re better off doing one large project rather than a hundred small ones. And so that led us down the road of like, okay, we were still working our day jobs. And so we said, okay, we have limited amount of time. Why don’t we just try and do one project? And that’s what got us onto utility scale solar, which had never been done in Alaska. Yeah,

Jon Powers (11:26):

Totally. And I want to go down that path here. One second. Let’s just for a second, paint the picture of Alaska for folks that are not as familiar. I think oftentimes we think about the domestic 48 and the power grids and how they’re spreading power. And you can power generated in Pennsylvania can clearly buffalo, whatever you guys are, in essence an island where the communities are maybe two large cities and everything else is, for lack of a better term, a microgrid, right?

Jenn Miller (12:00):

Yeah, absolutely is. We have, just for folks that aren’t familiar, but we have what’s called the rail belt, and that’s our central city.

Jon Powers (12:07):

I would argue most public bill aren’t familiar, so let’s just go to that.

Jenn Miller (12:11):

That’s right. And so we have a combined transmission system that is not connected to the lower 48, but it goes from Fairbanks, which is our second largest city all the way down to our southern portion down in Homer, Alaska. And so that’s the core population center along the road system, and that’s the area that our company is focused in. And Anchorage is kind of central to that. But then there’s outside of that, like you said, microgrids for rural Alaska where they’re on diesel generators most of the year, they have to fly in fuel and it’s some of the highest energy costs in the nation looking at like 40 cents a kilowatt hour.

Jon Powers (12:55):

Yeah, transporting that fuel is super expensive. And what, are you talking about an island in Guam or are you talking about a microgrid in Alaska? Absolutely. So that core grid, the rail system, you use what you called it, right? Yeah.

Jenn Miller (13:08):

We call it the rail belt. It follows the rail.

Jon Powers (13:10):

The rail. Oh, gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah. What was the major electricity generation source? Was it oil combustion or was it natural gas? What was driving most of the power up until recently there?

Jenn Miller (13:25):

Yeah, so about 70 to 75% of our electricity generation is with natural gas. And we have a cook inlet natural gas reservoir that’s in south central Alaska, just outside of Anchorage and Kenai. And so that’s where the majority of our electricity generation comes from. So say 70% and then almost a hundred percent of our natural gas heat, which is also critically important in the wintertime, comes from that field. And that gas field’s been operating since the sixties. And so just in 2022, the main operator of that field corp announced, Hey, we can meet our existing gas contracts that we’ve already signed, but beyond that, we cannot make further commitments. And so what we’re looking

Jon Powers (14:12):

At, so it’s really running out of gas,

Jenn Miller (14:14):

We’re going to have a shortage of gas and the forecast or the shortfall is forecasted for 2028, which is honestly just a burner. And so now the state is in a position where in order to meet reliability, we’re looking at importing liquified natural gas. So this is just a very,

Jon Powers (14:36):

And then prioritizing, is it heat or power generation with that gas is there figuring out on the road, right?

Jenn Miller (14:42):

Yeah. So right now the utilities are quickly looking to diversify and that’s where the renewable or just so solar, wind, hydro, other forms of energy generation are aggressively being pursued to reduce the amount of demand of how much we need to import. And we will have to import just to meet that gas or the heat demand, but they really see on the electricity generation side, that’s where we can really make a difference with all the ready to deploy technologies.

Jon Powers (15:17):

Yeah, absolutely. So this is happening in parallel where you deciding to really start a company, start having conversations with utilities for the first time. Thinking about solar, what were those conversations like going into the utilities and really trying to lay out the case?

Jenn Miller (15:33):

Yeah, so it was pretty interesting. We always laugh about, so our first project we did 140 kilowatts, and that was on the DC side and on the AC side it’s a hundred kilowatts, so you don’t at that exact size, that’s the limit of where you don’t need to get a special contractor a power purchase agreement. And so we said, okay, let’s try and keep this simple for our first pilot project. And we approached Magnus Electric Association back in 2017 and we said, Hey, we are four engineers. We’re interested in trying to what we thought was a large scale system at the time.

(16:15):

And we approached it really in a very friendly, non-confrontational way. And they said that was really refreshing for them because we just went up and said, Hey, what would you guys think? Are you interested? We’re not going to force a project down your throats or anything. And they at the same time had just started to been looking into wanting to do a little bit of solar and tested out and get to, because really no one had, none of the utilities had deployed solar yet. There was a little bit of rooftop solar but not a utility scale central system. And yeah, it’s been amazing to see how big Trus is such a big component of what we’ve been doing and I think they really liked it. It’s like, Hey, this is a small enough system that we’ll just see how this goes. It’s not too consequential one way or the other, but it’s a great way, it’s a good pilot for us and it’s a good pilot for them. And we always laugh about, we had made our own business cards for that meeting and we cut them ourselves and they were all different sizes. And so

Jon Powers (17:21):

We said,

Jenn Miller (17:23):

Don’t give any one person two of the same card because

Jon Powers (17:29):

That’s

Jenn Miller (17:29):

How young we were.

Jon Powers (17:32):

Were you still in your day job then?

Jenn Miller (17:34):

Yeah, we were still in our day jobs because we couldn’t leave those yet because we self-funded the whole pilot

Jon Powers (17:41):

Project. I get it.

Jenn Miller (17:46):

And so we met with Ed and Julie nuco Electric, and they had lots of questions and we had done a lot of homework. We’d researched what’s their cost of generation and how would the rates work? And we always came in saying, Hey, the value proposition is that we either get paid what it costs you to generate power or come in under. And they said that was kind of the first time they’d been approached that way. Whereas other times folks had come in and said, Hey, I want to do this project and here’s what you need to pay me to make it work.

(18:20):

And then I think too, we really approached it in kind of similar to what I talked about when I worked on the North Slope is just a really humble manner of we don’t have all the answers, we haven’t done this before, but we want to try it and we’re going to be honest about what we know and don’t know. And I think that really built a lot of trust with them and we were able to collaborate in a way was that was kind of new. And so we worked on that project and they were really great about working on the interconnection piece and really kind of making the project happen. And we turned that project around in a year from starting the company. So that was in 2018 and had a ribbon cutting and all that. And we went to a little micro brewery afterwards to celebrate and it’s just this really neat community thing. And the four partners,

Jon Powers (19:14):

And you still had your day job at this point? Yeah. This is a side project. And you guys were, so what was the trigger then of, okay, we’ve been to the brewery, we’ve cut the ribbon and No, Jen, she and her husband worked together. So you guys both left your jobs. That’s a pretty big commitment. What was the trigger point on the dining room table? You’re like, we’re doing this.

Jenn Miller (19:35):

Yeah, well, so we did one more project before we decided to cut ties with our pretty cush oil jobs. And so we did a 1.2 megawatt expansion. A year later we turned that around

Jon Powers (19:53):

And Oh, it was an expansion of the original project. I didn’t realize that.

Jenn Miller (19:56):

Yeah, exactly. And so then for that project, that’s how we figured out, okay, how does the investment model work? We were really isolated, so we’re Googling, how do you do finance?

Jon Powers (20:09):

I did the same thing. That’s how we started Clean capital. How do you do finance? This is going to work. Not kidding,

Jenn Miller (20:17):

But we also got, half of that project was funded with a state loan through the Alaska Energy Authority. And so that was a really a good validation of, Hey, we’re onto something here. Here’s what we think a proforma looks like and the cash flows. But to have another entity look at that and say, yeah, we’ll give you financing for this project. So anyways, once we had done And you

Jon Powers (20:41):

Were doing all that modeling yourself at the time?

Jenn Miller (20:44):

Yeah, we were doing all the modeling ourselves. Chris is really financially savvy, and so he took on all the economic modeling and we were doing the design ourselves and I did a lot of the project management. And then for that project we had to get a power purchase agreement. And so that was a really big test of the system of can we work with the utility, agree a long-term contract. And it was a 30 year contract and then that had to go through our regulatory commission for approval, and they approved it I think in 60 days, which was pretty fast. So then that was really the vote of confidence we needed to one say, can we scale this? And two, can we bite off that next piece of getting a contract and doing some local financing? So it wasn’t quite institutional investment yet, but it was maturing that a little bit more.

Jon Powers (21:35):

Can I ask sort of a silly question that I think people think about Alaska and okay, it’s dark half the year. So where through that was it that pilot that helped you understand how to truly model that out and when you’re getting the biggest impact of your curves, et cetera?

Jenn Miller (21:52):

And so I think for us, the biggest uncertainty was the cost. And so we did the pilot because in Alaska, because we’re remote, everyone’s like, oh, everything costs two times here. And it’s like, well, if it costs two times, the economics don’t work. But we had done our rooftop system, but we hadn’t done a ground mount system. And so the pilot really gave us confirmation on our cost estimate model that this dollar per watt is achievable in Alaska and it was competitive with lower 48 benchmarks. And so it doesn’t need to cost more because it’s in Alaska, you pay a little more for shipping. But that’s really the main difference. And then the production came in and seeing that come in as forecasted, and that was part of our loan application is showing the performance that, hey, this does produce we predicted and that we are maintaining the system and keeping it up.

Jon Powers (22:52):

Let’s paint a picture of that production for a second. So literally it’s 24 7 for certain months when the sun’s up or what does that production curve here in Buffalo, right? It’s your classic duck, but you’re talking about high production for certain months and almost nil other months. How does that work?

Jenn Miller (23:11):

That’s right. Yeah. So in December, January, we’re at less than 1% of our total production for the year. And so we hibernation mode a little bit little,

(23:21):

And then really we get about 90% of our production between February and October. And what’s really interesting too is we have really nice March april in Alaska or really February, March, April. And with the Houston project, we used bifa panels and we’re getting that. We get a lot of reflective light off. We have these Bluebird days, ton of snow on the ground, and we have this really fresh, clean white snow. So we have pretty good production in the spring, and then of course all through the summer and then it tails off in the fall. But we actually have pretty strong months, production months February through October, and there’s really just, I think everyone anchors to Oh, December. And it’s like, well, that’s not the whole year. Yeah,

Jon Powers (24:11):

Right, right, right.

Jenn Miller (24:12):

Yeah. And then in the summertime we have just, it’s not quite 24 hours a daylight. It’s more dusk in the middle of the night, but we have a really fat production profile that sits throughout the whole day where we’re at peak production for a long

Jon Powers (24:29):

Time. Yeah, that’s incredible. So through this process, you started to work with a group called Launch Alaska and Isaac, which is sort of how we all might talk for a second about the role they have played in as you guys were thinking about building your company.

Jenn Miller (24:44):

And so after we finished the Willow expansion and we had found land for the Houston project, and we’d framed that project up, but then we didn’t know investment companies and asset owners like Clean Capital, and so we partnered with Launch Alaska to basically what they did is they said, Hey, we’ll shop your project around, we’ll introduce you to basically connect us to the institutional investment market in the lower 48. And that was really critical because again, being in Alaska, you are just kind of islanded and you don’t have a connection to that broader community. And so Launch Alaska introduced us to Clean Capital back in 2020, and that’s when we started talking about the Houston project.

Jon Powers (25:33):

So folks that aren’t familiar with programs like Launch Alaska, I had worked with Isaac in my previous life and through the Pentagon and other areas where the Navy was helping to fund a program to help create innovation in places like Alaska. They’re doing a lot of other places as well. But it was a great introduction for us, and as we got to know your team, I think this is a little bit how Clean Capital works. We were all looking at assets together and realize the potential you guys have to grow what you’re doing there, the awesome team you have, and decided not just to look at the assets, but to create a true partnership and invest in the company and give you guys the support you need to grow. And that led to my partner Tom coming to Alaska last, was it August? The ribbon cutting? Yeah,

Jenn Miller (26:16):

That’s

Jon Powers (26:16):

Right. Last August for ribbon cutting at the time, the largest solar array in Alaska, maybe still.

Jenn Miller (26:23):

Yep. When we did the Willow expansion, that’s a 1.2 megawatt facility, and that was in 2019, and that was the largest in the state. And then the Houston project, eight and a half megawatts, so a sixfold increase

Jon Powers (26:40):

Powering about 1400 homes right across Alaska. Alaska,

Jenn Miller (26:43):

That’s right. Yep. 1400 homes. And in that local community, there’s times where we’re peak summer days, we’re 70 to 90% of their demand within that distribution. So yeah, it’s pretty cool.

Jon Powers (26:57):

So I see the picture behind you of the ribbon cutting, which is awesome. And I want to talk for a second about that experience. It really brought out a lot of folks to celebrate the triumph of the hard work you’ve been working on, but I can’t imagine in the beginning all of those folks were supporting what are these people doing? Bringing Alaska up here? How did that experience of literally having that ribbon cutting and showing the work changed some of the culture of what the ecosystem is like to work with up there?

Jenn Miller (27:27):

Yeah, so it’s interesting to look back on, we’ve had a ribbon cutting for our pilot, the expansion and then the Houston project and just how the crowds grew for each one of those. And we were really fortunate enough, so for our Willow project, I think we looked at over 700 land listings to try and find that land site. So it was really like, what can we afford? What’s by the grid? What’s the right size? But anyways, it just so happened to be that the Matsu Burrow mayor lived down the road of a mile down the road from where that project was. And then he’s also, he was the mayor, but he also was an Iditarod musher,

Jon Powers (28:11):

And

Jenn Miller (28:11):

He would be exercising his dogs every day, and he would come by the site and just be like, oh my God, these guys are crazy.

(28:21):

They’re out here in the mud. And he’s like, but they’re tenacious. They keep coming back and they’re getting it done. He was a really early supporter of our work and thought, Hey, this is great economic development in the Matsu borough. It’s great to see new energy diversification in our state. And so he was part of that early pilot project and celebration there. And then even at our Willow expansion came and gave a speech as part of that. And then that also brought in the Alaska Energy Authority, which is a state entity that came in and provided the loan for that expansion project. So then you are kind of building supporters there. And then when we did the Houston project, it was just at a whole new level of stakeholders. We worked with the city of Houston to rezone the land for that project, working with the neighbors to figure out a plan that made, when you choose to live in Houston, Alaska, you’re not like, oh, cool, I’m going to go live next to this industrial power site. You want to go live next to a lake in the woods? And so what was really cool is the neighbors actually just called me and they’re like, Hey, why don’t you come over to our house one night? This was in 2020 during Covid. And they said, why don’t you just come? We’ll meet with all the neighbors. You talk about what your plans are, we’ll see what our concerns are and we’ll just figure this out face to

Jon Powers (29:47):

Face, old school permitting. I love it.

Jenn Miller (29:49):

And it was so cool because I thought, man, I wish the world was more this way. Instead of anonymous comments or submitting Facebook

Jon Powers (29:58):

Campaigns, trying to smear solar.

Jenn Miller (30:00):

It was like, I’ll just call you. And they’re like, okay. And they’re like, you’re from here. You guys are real. They just wanted to feel us out of, if you’re going to be our neighbors, I want to know who you are.

Jon Powers (30:12):

Of course.

Jenn Miller (30:13):

And we found some really simple compromises, but then they came and supported the rezone. The city of Houston mayor and city council supported the rezone. We leased land from the Matsu borough. So the city of Houston is within the matsu borough, and the borough owns the land for the project. And they were really excited too. Wow, this is neat economic development. These guys are new, but let’s give them a try. So the whole assembly voted and approved that land lease, and then we worked with Mad NewCo Electric on the power purchase agreement and technical studies. And so all of a sudden you’re just so many more stakeholders. There’s Launch Alaska that introduced us to clean capital. There’s clean capital coming in and saying, Hey, we believe in this too, and we want to invest in Alaska, which speaks volumes for our state. We have been such a concentrated economy to have a new investment line of business come in is a big deal.

Jon Powers (31:18):

We want to bring outside capital into Alaska to expand.

Jenn Miller (31:22):

And before the ribbon cutting, we had a groundbreaking ceremony when we started construction in 2022, and the governor came and it was pretty neat because Governor Dunleavy said, Hey, this is a smart thing. And this makes, because it was all about energy diversification, delivering low cost power. How can you say no?

Jon Powers (31:46):

I’m going to pause you. I mean, it’s interesting about that story is here’s a Republican governor and a relatively politically Republican state who are supporting this. They understand the impact. And I think what’s fascinating, I’ve had a lot of conversations on the inflation reduction act, et cetera, and you’re seeing that bipartisan level at the state and local level. I mean, Georgia is building massive solar manufacturing with very Republican leadership at the state level because they see the potential of job creation, et cetera. It’s only at the federal level where we have this weird dynamic fight happening. So that’s awesome to hear. I

Jenn Miller (32:22):

Think when you get to the local level, it just gets more practical of, yeah, more personal need energy. I want it to be affordable. We want to create local jobs. And when you’re ticking those boxes, it takes the politics out of it. And I think it’s a really beautiful,

Jon Powers (32:40):

So let’s talk about scale for a second. I think we’re, before we scale, I do want to talk about one picture I saw of the Houston project as you guys were underway, and there was a moose that kept coming back to the site and tearing the construction fencing down. Is this correct? How did you guys deal with this? We don’t deal with that in Buffalo.

Jenn Miller (32:59):

Yeah, so we have the Houston Solar Farm is on 45 acres, and what’s pretty cool is in the 1990s there was what was called the Miller’s Reach fire. And so it was a fire that burned through that area. And so honestly, it was ideal for solar development because all the big trees were gone, but it’s a moose habitat across that whole acreage and other areas. And in the wintertime when the snow’s high, the moose just step over the fence. So well, when I say they step over it, they like to step on it and push it down. And so yeah, they would just kind of come in, chomp on some different vegetation and then walk back out. And then while before we had the fence up, then they were really just kind of coming in, visiting, and we’d catch ’em on camera.

Jon Powers (33:49):

That’s amazing.

Jenn Miller (33:50):

They were just checking it out. And one thing that’s really cool is when we did the willow site that was a tree site, and we cut the trees and we scraped the site and graded it in Houston, we looked at that land and we’re like, man, this is almost perfectly flat. And it has some rolling terrain, but it’s generally flat, low vegetation. And so we kept, rather than grading the site, we did, we mulched it, and in between the rows we mulched down to two or three feet because there’s a lot of low bush cranberry and blueberry plants that we wanted to leave natural. And it also helps with just keeping the soil from having runoff and things like that. And so we left the site natural. So I think that’s why when it comes to animals and critters, they’re like, Hey, this is still a habitat. And the moose have stopped coming in every once in a while. They’ll break in the wintertime because they can step over the fence, but we have lots of different birds on the site. It’s actually really beautiful.

Jon Powers (34:56):

So let’s go back to scale for a second. So you talked about natural gas issues as soon as 2028, that’s right around the corner. So to be able to meet the demands, you’re going to need more and more projects like this. What potential do you see in Alaska in terms of scale for solar? And you’ve gone from 140 kilowatts to 1.2 megawatts to 8.5 megawatts, but there’s a lot more needed. You’re just scraping the beginning. How do we get to that scale?

Jenn Miller (35:26):

And so now we’re looking at, we’ve had been focused on our early projects. Were distribution tide systems, and now we’re looking at transmission tide systems. That way you can do much larger projects that can flow more easily across the grid. And our project pipeline is hundreds of megawatts, and that’s what we’ve identified today. And really what’s really cool to see is through the Alaska Energy Authority and across the utilities, they’re also looking at how do we integrate more intermittent power? How do we get ready to receive this power because we know we want to diversify. And so they’re leaning in hard to upgrading the transmission system, so we have more capacity to, so we can cite projects in the best possible location and transmit that electricity to the communities. And then they’re adding batteries so that we can regulate the intermittent power and keep the grid stable. And so they’re saying, Hey, how do we take on some of those more federal, global projects to set the base infrastructure? And then IP can come in and give the lowest cost, whether it’s wind or solar, and I think they’re doing a lot of the early battery deployment. And then as we mature too, we’ll be looking at solar plus storage projects to further mature that. But I think there’s, between solar and wind, we’re looking at gigawatt plus type generation over the next 10 to 15 years.

Jon Powers (37:01):

That scale is phenomenal. It sort of has to happen, right? Yeah,

Jenn Miller (37:05):

Exactly. Yep. And what’s cool too is the utilities are, as we’ve been able to do these pilot projects, and it’s been really nice to step up in size and learn over time, and we’re building, they’re developing tools of like, okay, how do our other generators respond to the intermittency? How much renewable or intermittent power can we take? How do we regulate it? Homer Electric just installed a 40 megawatt Tesla battery a couple years ago, and they’re getting really sophisticated utilizing that battery and seeing how it responds. And so we’re building confidence to take those next big steps.

Jon Powers (37:47):

So let me ask you a question about Clean Capital for a second. How has working with us changed your ability to grow and scale?

Jenn Miller (37:55):

I mean, it’s night and day. That’s good hear and it’s all across the board and different disciplines. So one, I think from a state perspective, like I said earlier, having that saying, Hey, institutional investors believe in solar in Alaska, and that this is a deployable technology and we’re ready to go. And so when we go talk with, we had a pretty active legislative session this past year, and

Jon Powers (38:24):

You invited me to testify up there. Yeah, that’s right. I had to testify to folks and talk about it.

Jenn Miller (38:28):

Exactly. And so in seeing that there’s money behind these projects, these aren’t just out there ideas, no, we’re ready to go. We want to invest in your state. And the degree to which this is all five years ago, solar and Alaska was a question mark, and now it’s the governor’s focus, the Sustainable energy conference this year in his intro was, we’re going to deploy a lot of solar and we’re going to do it fast. And it’s an assumption now. It’s like, yeah.

Jon Powers (39:02):

So do you see competitors popping up?

Jenn Miller (39:05):

We do. See, it’s been great to see other IPPs in the wind space popping up because I think we’ve up, you can get PPAs

(39:14):

And you can work with utilities. And so we’re starting to see other IPPs in other technologies, and we know we are starting to see some in the solar space. They’re not local, but others that are interested in the state, which is good, that’s healthy for the market. But then the other area as far as clean capital is we have this small homegrown team in an isolated market and connecting with clean capital. And really, so we worked with Clean Capital for two years before we developed the partnership and Clean Capital became a partner in renewable IPP. And it was really just a common way of doing business of that transparency, genuineness, working together like, Hey, this is tricky, but let’s figure it out and not willing to dig in.

(40:10):

And that really was a great way to say, yeah, we definitely want to partner with clean capital. And then since then, it’s just been a deepening of that partnership of sharing of knowledge and resources and clean capital has helped, I think, mature the solar industry, bringing bigger suppliers to Alaska, bringing standard practices like OM procedures and commissioning procedures, and then really, I think upping the game of where the industry was at. So before it was this homegrown kind of more ad hoc, and then when capital came in, it really brought the best practices to bear so that Alaska could really just say, great, you guys already know these, we’re going to adopt them and move. And so I think it’s just, and it’s giving the utilities a lot of confidence as well. Okay. We’re not just kind of doing a one-off or our own thing. We’re doing what the industry does.

Jon Powers (41:08):

Awesome. So I’m going to take you back to Eagle Creek, right? That’s the name of the town.

Jenn Miller (41:12):

Oh, Eagle River. Yeah,

Jon Powers (41:13):

Eagle River. Eagle River. Sorry. It’s closed. All good. And you are preparing to go to school in Idaho, right? School in Idaho. Yeah,

Jenn Miller (41:23):

That’s right.

Jon Powers (41:23):

Yeah. If you could sit down, or when you’re graduating, if you could sit down and give yourself one piece of advice, looking forward to today, what would you tell yourself?

Jenn Miller (41:32):

I think what I tell myself and others is I kind of thought about, there’s two big things that have really been instrumental in my career, and one is that field hands-on experience. And so much of the world today is on computers and in offices and what, but what’s really physically happening is out in the field. And don’t be afraid of that. Don’t be timid. And it’s always easier to spend a day in the office, but make it a priority to get to the field work, get hands-on pitch in where you can, because there’s this, I think we undervalue it in society. There’s this tactile learning. Totally. Because then we go back to doing design 2D on a piece of paper and it’s like, oh, I wouldn’t do it that way because you got to do that in the field. It’s a

Jon Powers (42:23):

Real thing. And those are going to trample the fence. Yeah, exactly.

Jenn Miller (42:26):

Exactly. And so just I think really valuing that field experience, and maybe you’re not getting a new piece of knowledge every five minutes, but the knowledge that you’re gaining over days or weeks is invaluable in your career. And then I think the other is just an importance and emphasis on relationships and trust, because none of this would’ve happened without, and you got to follow through on that, be a trustworthy person, and follow through on your commitments and really develop those relationships. Because what’s been needed is none of our projects have been mandated or forced. It’s all been, you know what? You seem like you guys have a good plan. You seem like you’re going to follow through. We’re going to trust you. And then we took that trust very seriously and built on it. And same with Clean Capital. You guys met us and you said, okay, we’re going to trust you and vice versa. And that trust is really, I think, what makes the world go round.

Jon Powers (43:27):

I love that. I agree with you a hundred percent.

Jenn Miller (43:29):

Yeah. So yeah, I think that’s a field experience and really getting hands on and then really focusing on relationships and trust.

Jon Powers (43:37):

Jen, really just so admirable what you’re doing day to day in Alaska. So honored to have you part of the Clean Capital family and love working with you guys all the time. So thank you so much for being here.

Jenn Miller (43:50):

Yeah, thanks for believing in us, and thanks for, I mean, yeah, we wouldn’t be here without clean capital, and the feelings are all mutual. So thank you to you and your team.

Jon Powers (44:01):

Lots more to do. I need to come visit you

Jenn Miller (44:04):

And Jon, just to say to you and Tom, the type of company as a small business owner, the type of company that you guys have created with that genuine, transparent, hardworking, fun atmosphere. I mean, it’s very admirable. And so thank you. Say, thanks for creating such a great team, and yeah, it’s been great.

Jon Powers (44:26):

That’s so great to hear. I appreciate that very much. And thanks to the RIP team for all the hard work. Thank you to Colleen Young for helping to produce this. You can get more episodes, as always@cleancapital.com, and Jen and I are both going to be at Anaheim at Ari plus, so reach out so we can connect. Jen, thank you so much.

Jenn Miller (44:44):

Thank you, Jon. Take care.

Jon Powers (44:46):

Take care.