Episode 48: Andrea Luecke [av_image src=’https://cleancapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/podcast-image-pageheader2.jpg’ attachment=’4329′ attachment_size=’full’ align=’center’ styling=” hover=” link=’page,249′ target=” caption=” font_size=” appearance=” overlay_opacity=’0.4′ overlay_color=’#000000′ overlay_text_color=’#ffffff’ copyright=” animation=’no-animation’ av_uid=’av-jwwgyb48′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”][/av_image] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwwgxszg’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] Episode 48: Andrea Luecke [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’10’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwl4lsb2′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] This week, Jon Powers speaks with Andrea Luecke, President and Executive Director of the Solar Foundation. Andrea started out as the sole employee for The Solar Foundation in 2010 and has since expanded the organization from a shoe-strong budget to a multi-million dollar set of programs dedicated to advancing solar energy growth. This conversation discusses the growth of The Solar Foundation, what they do, and how Andrea started this foundation. Prior to The Solar Foundation, Andrea ran the City of Milwaukee’s Department of Energy Solar America Cities program, “Milwaukee Shines”, implementing policies aimed at increasing solar energy capacity. She also served in the Peace Corps for two years. Andrea has a M.S. from the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, and a B.A. from the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities. [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwwh5253′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] Listen now [/av_textblock] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwl43nfd’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_social_share title=’Share this entry’ style=” buttons=” share_facebook=” share_twitter=” share_pinterest=” share_gplus=” share_reddit=” share_linkedin=” share_tumblr=” share_vk=” share_mail=” av-desktop-hide=” av-medium-hide=” av-small-hide=” av-mini-hide=” av_uid=’av-354olk’] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’40’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_button label=’More Podcasts’ link=’page,5266′ link_target=” size=’small’ position=’center’ label_display=” icon_select=’no’ icon=’ue800′ font=’entypo-fontello’ color=’theme-color’ custom_bg=’#444444′ custom_font=’#ffffff’ av_uid=’av-jx1x7jx3′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’40’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” id=” custom_class=” av_uid=’av-k1gntavz’ admin_preview_bg=”] Jon Powers: Welcome to Experts Only podcast, sponsored by CleanCapital. You can learn more at cleancapital.com. I’m your host, Jon Powers. Each week we explore the intersection of energy, innovation and finance with leaders across the industry. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for joining us today on CleanCapital’s Experts Only Podcast. Today we’re speaking with Andrea Luecke, the President and Executive Director of The Solar Foundation. Andrea was actually the sole employee of The Solar Foundation when it restarted in 2010, and she’s expanded that organization from a shoestring budget to a multimillion dollar program. We’re going to talk about their impact in the market and their work helping to draw attention to the growing job force in the solar industry and helping advocates tell that story to policymakers. But Andrea also worked at the City of Milwaukee, in the Department of Energy’s Solar America City program, helped run their Milwaukee Shines program policies to grow solar there, and had previously been to the Peace Corps. She has an incredible background and really is helping to drive a thought leader, that The Solar Foundation is, and bringing important data to our industry so we can think through our hires and diversity. And we’ll talk all about that today. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us at Experts Only podcast. Andrea Luecke: Well thanks Jon. Really a pleasure to be here. Jon Powers: So you grew up in small town Wisconsin, ended up working for the city. Now you’re in Washington, D.C., working for The Solar Foundation. Tell me a little bit about that ride. How did you go from small town Wisconsin into the Department of Energy at the city Milwaukee? Andrea Luecke: Yeah. So from country bumpkin to big city girl, is that what you’re asking? Jon Powers: Yeah. Andrea Luecke: Yeah. I’m a lifelong environmentalist. I grew up outside, in the country, in southwest Wisconsin. That upbringing, being out in nature all the time, I was a tomboy. I used to climb trees and collect tadpoles. Being outside so much really gave me a deep appreciation for nature. I’m definitely someone who deeply cares about having clean water, clean air, clean food, and having a small footprint. But I’m also a world traveler and a lifelong humanist, and I really care about helping people to live better lives. And so renewable energy, particularly solar, really, really piqued my interest and got me excited because of its immense potential. And I think, you look at all the population increases that are happening, and the increases in standard of living, and the increased demands for energy. While all that is taking place, it was when I first learned … I don’t know how long it was ago, maybe 12, 13 years ago … that a single hour … in one hour, the amount of power from the sun that strikes the earth is more than the entire world consumes in a year. When I learned that little fun fact, it literally blew my mind. And you know, I was listening to presentations when I was in, when I was in Morocco, I was a Peace Corps volunteer soccer. Jon Powers: State that one more time, the amount of sun, the amount of energy hitting that striking there at any given time. Andrea Luecke: Yeah, in a single hour. The amount of power from the sun that strikes the earth. It’s more than what we consume in an entire year. And the sun just is boundless, it’s limitless. I learned that about 12 or 13 years ago when I was in Morocco is a Peace Corps volunteer of small business development, a volunteer. I was listening to presentations by this German group that they call themselves the desert tech. And basically they were trying to turn the entire Saharan desert into a solar farm and export energy to Europe. And you know, their plans had so much potential and it really captured my imagination and sparked my interest. And it was because of that that I decided to go back to grad school. It was also that same time that I saw the documentary, An Inconvenient Truth. And that shook me to the core as it did many, many people. And so I went back to school, I went to Milwaukee so that I could learn everything that I could about business and… Jon Powers: Morocco to Milwaukee. Andrea Luecke: Yeah. Well, I mean there were, there were a lot of stops in between. Jon Powers: Yeah. Andrea Luecke: This is sort of how I got into solar and… Jon Powers: Yeah. Andrea Luecke: I was particularly interested in business, but how the nonprofit sector works, the social sector. And I really want to focus my work on solving environmental crises such as climate change. And so that really became my purpose and my direction. And so as I was deciding where to go to grad school, I got really lucky and I got this fellowship to work with the city of Milwaukee running there startup solar program. It’s called Milwaukee Shines. And that’s why I chose to get my master’s at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, because of this city fellowship. And so that [crosstalk 00:05:21] Yeah, full time grad school, full time working at the city, managing several multimillion dollar department of energy grants. Milwaukee was a solar America city back in the day. And this is very exciting. These are very exciting times. This was 2008 right when the financial markets crashed. This was 2008 right when the presidential election took place and Obama was elected and then all of that, ARRA money came flowing through. Jon Powers: Right. Andrea Luecke: So obviously it was a good time for me to be back in school gearing up. But then also that’s where I got my crash course on solar and the market. I was working at the city helping them to streamline permitting to create solar friendly zoning ordinances. We created one of the first PACE programs in the country. We put together an industry consortia, we trained inspectors. We do all this really cool work. I mean it was a lot of work though. And like I said, I was in grad school full time and working full time, but it was really rewarding because when I first started there, the city only had about 30 KW of solar installed. And fast forward to today there’s about four megawatts installed and counting. And so it’s, I think really great to see the progress and how it’s now happening at scale in cities across the country, not just in places like Milwaukee. Jon Powers: So that sort of… As that began to grow. Right. What sort of led you into your interests with, I think you were, if I’m correct here, you were the first employee, of The Solar Foundation, correct? Andrea Luecke: Yes, yes. Jon Powers: So how did you go from, obviously working on these issues at a policy level, driving grants to… Was that still the foundation work in Washington? Did you make the move from Milwaukee to Washington? Andrea Luecke: I did, yeah. So when my grad program was up, and my contract with the city was up, because it was tied to my grad school experience. It was a fellowship. I just put a few feelers out, [crosstalk 00:07:35] as one often does. And I said, “Hey, I’m looking for a job”. And so I met some people, I flew to DC, I interviewed with Tom Kimbis and Roan Rash, and talk [crosstalk 00:07:49] on a number of other people. And I was hired. And I think in many ways it was because, well obviously I have the education qualifications, the solar experience and the attitude. But also in many, many ways I think it was because of my international development experience and my ability to sort of connect the dots, and help… And understand and help people understand how solar as a technology can be integrated into all aspects of our lives. Jon Powers: So 10 years ago when you were having these conversations with Tom and Roan, and they had this vision for The Solar Foundation, can you talk a little bit about what you all are thinking when you got it off the ground? And for folks that aren’t familiar, talk a little about, what the solar foundation does now and sort of what you guys are, what your mission is. Andrea Luecke: Sure. Yeah. So I mean that was back in 2010 and I was the first employee and I had zero budget, zero staff. And so we were thinking survival. But there is a history, [crosstalk 00:09:05] there is a history and there is a mission and a purpose. The Solar Foundation wasn’t born out of nothing. It actually has been around for a long time. We were created in 1977 by SEIA, and our name actually used to be the solar energy research and education foundation. And for many decades we were chugging along, but the market was really tiny back then. And due to a lack of market activity in the eighties and nineties and even in the early two thousands. We basically… Our little nonprofit faded into the background. But then of course the investment tax credit was created by George Bush in 2005 and then it was renewed in 2008 and that’s when a SEIA leadership decided in 2009 timeframe that it was time to bring the foundation back. But to make some changes, to shorten the name to The Solar Foundation just rolls off the tongue a little bit better, and then [crosstalk 00:10:11] make it a separate independent entity. But to remain strategically aligned and remain partners moving into the future. And so all this very important legal and formational work in 2009 that was all done by Tom Kimbis, our dear friend. Then after all that formational work was done in 2010 that’s when Tom and Roan, and the board brought me on as the new head of the organization to not only launch it but to bring it to life and mentioned it was just me. I had a couple interns, I had no budget, I had zero track record. Nobody knew anything about The Solar [crosstalk 00:10:53] Yeah, it’s total startup. And then, eventually over time we did establish a track record. We did amass, some major contracts, and we were able to ultimately staff up. But, obviously it’s been a team effort. I’ve got an incredible team and, it’s been a harrowing journey. So when I said survival, I really mean it. Running a nonprofit is extraordinarily difficult. And it’s been 24/7 for years and years. And we’ve had to overcome a lot. But now I’m very proud that we have a recognizable and impactful presence in the marketplace. And I think in great part it’s because we as a team, we don’t take anything for granted. We take one day at a time, we treat every day as a battle. My philosophy is to never ever give up. And I think that’s one of my signature traits and probably why my board hired me in the first place because good or bad, I’m one of those never give up fight to the death warrior type of people, and of course I think that there’s no battle more worth fighting than to stop climate change. So I’m definitely in the right role and I’m one of those people that’s always going to be on the front lines. But admittedly, brute strength will only get us so far. We really have to be smart and we have to be strategic and we have to be coordinated. Jon Powers: Can you talk a little bit about that last 10 years as the market for solar has really began to hit its stride and we’re hitting record corridors on a regular basis. The job for us, which we’ll talk more about a little bit later is not just growing but it’s matured and becoming efficient. How has your mission change at Solar Foundation? Andrea Luecke: Well, we have a very broad mission, so we’re a national nonprofit. We’re based in DC, we’re a research and education education think tank. We’re most known for our solar jobs census, but we’re also known for our red tape cutting ninjitsu that we do across local governments everywhere. And so that’s sort of been our mission. But we did recently, not recently, but about two years ago, we expanded our technology focus to include solar compatible technologies such as storage, demand response, smart meters and EVs. And so while we haven’t really gone full on with all of that, we recognize some of these mega trends toward… Jon Powers: Right. Andrea Luecke: Technology hybridization and we understand how you can really increase the value of solar when you marry it or pair it with some of these other technologies like electric vehicles. And so our mission has changed. We are mostly focused on the national landscape because the US needs so much help, but we do have global aspirations. Several of our programs I think are readily applicable to other countries around the world. And that really also feeds into my interests and background in the international development space. Jon Powers: Interesting. So I’m going to talk more domestics stuff now than international, but over the last, since 2010 according to Solar Foundation, there’s an amazing series of job reports and we’ll talk about that here in a second. But from some of the data you guys have shown over the last, since 2010 the workforce has grown by over 150%. We’ve got nearly 150,000 solar jobs out there today. Can you talk about some of the trends you’re seeing in the last few reports and also while doing that, talk about the report itself. How do you collect that data and what do you do with that data? Andrea Luecke: Yeah, so the solar job census has been just so phenomenal. It’s been such a powerful tool. We are coming up, we’re gearing up to issue our 10th annual solar jobs census. So I’m trying to raise half a million dollars right now to get our 10th annual solar jobs census out the door. We fought really hard in the early days to develop a methodology that was defensible, credible, that could stand the test of time, that could persuade even the most critical of voices. And in partnership with BW Research, we were able to develop one that has now been applied across other energy sectors. So we’re really, really, really proud of the methodology that we co-created and developed back in 2010 but yeah, the census is, it’s jobs are very closely correlated with solar capacity and installed capacity. And so it’s not just a jobs report that we put out, it’s really a market trends report. We talk about that correlation, we talk about the future, we talk about who has these jobs, we talk about the impacts on GDP that and impacts [crosstalk 00:15:54] on the local tax base and sort of who is hiring, and what sectors within solar are really moving fastest, and what segments of the market are really moving fastest, and who is really hiring the most. So we talk about all those things so that the job is very rich right now. And what we’ve found is that the industry has about 250, 260 solar jobs today. The industry has added almost a hundred thousand new jobs in the past five years. Jon Powers: Amazing. Andrea Luecke: Which is totally amazing. And we are expecting more growth. The industry predicts about 7% growth this year, which would bring the total up to about 260, 260,000 jobs. That’s the immediate short term picture. That’s where we are currently at. But in my view and many others, if climate change remains unchecked and emissions keep in fact increasing, we’re going to see annual losses in some economic sectors reaching hundreds of billions of dollars by the end of the century. And that’s going to be disastrous to, and very disruptive to critical infrastructure, to property, to labor productivity to communities. It’s going to be disastrous. Very expensive. Of course, what is the response? What is the logical response to this? It is to of course accelerate the use of solar and other clean energy technologies far, far beyond what we’ve thus far achieved. And so, looking at all these different scenarios, we’re looking at… The middle ground scenario is that renewable energy has to make up between 70 and 85% of the world’s electricity by 2050 and if you think about all the jobs that are associated with that, it’s astounding. Here in the US, solar only makes up about 2% of our overall electricity mix. If we have even just 20% solar by 2030 or 2050 that represents hundreds and hundreds of new jobs, and these are more or less pretty high quality jobs [crosstalk 00:18:02] and so jobs, our jobs work is so powerful and it’s been a very effective and persuasive argument. The green new deal I think really rightfully emphasizes the economic and jobs impact of climate action and of course the cost of inaction. And so we’re… Jon Powers: I think that’s what’s critical about it. First of all, for folks that haven’t seen it, you should go to thesolarfoundation.org and you can access the report. And right now we face a political debate, especially in Washington where you have an administration pushing for saving coal jobs for instance, on a pretty regular basis. And what this report has done is, it’s empowered advocates to to go in and actually drive down and point to the growth of the solar market in a way, 10 years ago it was about, let’s do this for the environment. And now it’s about a growing economic market that is significant, and it’s localized, and you can actually get down through this report into different states and fill out the fact sheets. And if you haven’t done it, check it out. It’s something that we all in the industry really need to step up our game, and using data like this to continue to make the case for the policies that we need to continue to grow the industry and Andrea, thanks for the leadership at Solar Foundation to put this stuff out there for sure. Andrea Luecke: Oh yeah, you’re welcome Jon. And thanks for the plug. It’s so true. Jobs that, this job’s messaging is irresistible to almost everyone on both sides of the aisle. And so it has been really effective. And I think one of the key features of our jobs census is that it is hyper granular. We’ve got all those fact sheets. We also have a map and you can drill down to the congressional district level, and so you can have numbers and then a nice conversation piece for talking with folks that represent you on the hill. Jon Powers: It’s still impactful to have that data when you meet with a member because they, many cases don’t recognize what impact is happening in their district. Andrea Luecke: Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think there’s always the discussion about wages and are these family sustaining jobs? Are these good jobs? Are these going to lead to prosperity? And I think that the solar industry, while there are a number of different occupations within the solar industry in many of the jobs are entry level and relatively low paying, the majority of these jobs do pay better than the national average. And another point I want to make about these jobs is that, there is a fairly low education barrier to entry. And so they are more or less accessible to people from all walks of life, which I think is really key when we’re talking about needing everyone’s participation, brain power and muscles. The fact that we really can’t afford to have anyone sitting on the sidelines, and the fact that we really want to make sure that our industry is diverse and inclusive, and these jobs are accessible to women, people of color, veterans, and other diverse or marginalized groups. Jon Powers: Yeah. Let’s talk about that for a second. I mean one of the really interesting things that you guys have begun to do at The Solar Foundation and SEIA and partnerships launched a really interesting diversity campaign. If you look across the industry, your job, the sentence points out that obviously this is a pretty white male industry. You see it when you go to solar power international on a regular basis. The workforce is 73% white and it’s heavily male, but it is beginning to change, right? We at Clean Capital are very proud that we are almost 50/50, in terms of male and female in our workforce. We are not as diverse as we need to be. What advice you have for companies like ours to start to try to drive diversity within our workforces? Andrea Luecke: Yeah. Well that’s awesome that you guys are gender parity at your firm. I think that’s terrific. Yeah. From a gender perspective, the solar industry is absolutely no way representative of the overall population. As you said, women make up only 26% of the solar workforce compared to 47% of the overall US economy. But this is not a problem that’s inherent with the solar industry, this is not unique to the solar industry. I love this stat, there are more men named John Jon, leading major US corporations than there are women leading major US corporations. Jon Powers: Really? Andrea Luecke: Yeah, so I mean this is just… Jon Powers: Damn those Johns. Andrea Luecke: Those Johns! It’s not just the solar industry. It’s great that the solar industry recognizes that it has a problem and wants to change, but it’s, everywhere. It’s other industries. IT, healthcare, tech, utilities. But if the solar industry is going to be an economic leader in the 21st century, which I sure hope it is, we therefore have a responsibility to lead, I think on diversity and inclusion. It will help us to troubleshoot, have better ideas, it will help us to compete and I think importantly will help us widen the candidate pool. Companies are finding it’s difficult to fill positions. McCarthy has 600 positions it’s trying to fill. If we can widen the candidate pool and make sure that we are really casting a wide net, that’s great because the industry is seeking to double, triple, quadruple in size over the coming years. And so there are so many reasons why this is important. Just the other day we released a report and a best practices guide for companies, with some tips and tricks as to what companies can do to be increasing their number of women and people of color and veterans on staff. And of course all of that is also at our website, thesolarfoundation.org. But yeah, it’s kind of dire. The news is not great. Women make 74 cents on the dollar compared to men and there’s a wage gap and a leadership gap. Men hold 80% of leadership positions and 88% of leaders in the solar industry are white as you suggested. But the industry is making it a huge priority. Abby Hopper from SEIA and CEO’s of other major solar companies are making it a priority. They’re making public statements, public commitments. Jon Powers: Yeah Clean Capital is doing it. Andrea Luecke: Yeah. And that’s really the first step. And I think showing leadership at the CEO level is the first step. Leaders should be vocal about diversity, they should set measurable goals, they should make staff accountable for meeting these goals, and then they should really evaluate their hiring and recruitment policies and sort of procedures. They should really look at that process through a a diversity inclusion lens. They should review position descriptions and scrub out any potentially biased language and utilize a blind resume review process. They should radically extend outreach to diverse populations, go into partnership with their local HBCU, their historically black college or university. They should reach out to women’s groups, to the NAACP etc. And set goals and have a really diverse recruitment team and there’s so many different strategies. So the best practices guide has all of that. Jon Powers: It can be overwhelming. So having [crosstalk 00:25:39]. Andrea Luecke: And we have a checklist which I think is helpful cause you can just sort of go down the checklist and see where you’re weak and so I think it is really, really critical. As I mentioned, it’s going to help us be more competitive and solve some of these very pressing issues that we have to solve in a very limited time. And it will help us cast a wider net and get more qualified candidates into the pool. And so SEIA has issued a diversity challenge, which you said you signed onto. And I think [inaudible] a hundred the companies [inaudible] signed on. We do have companies signed on. So I’d love to put a plugin for folks [crosstalk 00:26:17] on a sign on to the diversity [inaudible] SEIA has, we have links on our website. So thesolarfoundation.org/diversity. And then I know that SEIA also has all of that on their website. I don’t know what the, Oh, I’m not sure what the website is. Jon Powers: [inaudible 00:26:35] are in our social media for sure for folks. But yeah, you can find that at thesolarfoundation.org for sure. Excellent. So listen, I know we’re sort getting tight on time, but this is really interesting and I feel like there’s so many people in the industry that want to act and don’t always know how. And having things like a best practice guide is incredible helpful ’cause many of us have a such a place like Clean Capital. We’re not a big enough company where we have an HR team, right. So something that we have to look at it every time or we’re thinking about making it higher, going back and really thinking through how to incorporate diversity into that hire. Andrea, I appreciate the work that you guys are doing. I want to sort of step back out of solar for a second and put yourself back into smaller town Wisconsin and you are getting ready to graduate from high school or even later on when you’re graduating from college and, if you could give yourself one piece of advice. What would you say? Andrea Luecke: Well, I didn’t have a very traditional career path, which is I think what makes me somewhat unique. I spent seven years abroad, I traveled the world, I saw everything I was very deep in the international development sector for many years, long before I got into solar. And I don’t have any regrets. I have absolutely no regrets about my path. I think it was pretty awesome and fun. But given that we are in a different era today, and the international panel on climate change gives us now just over 11 years to make immense transformations happen given that we have a timeline. Had I known we were facing such a crisis, I think I might’ve traveled a little less and I think I would’ve tried to get to where I am today, 10 to 15 years sooner. I just would have been a lot more aggressive in developing my career. I would also have studied, I think the mega trends, I think automation is really, really happening and as is an increased need for grid modernization and cybersecurity. I would’ve gotten in on that 15 years ago, and I would study what’s happening with the workforce. Now what we’re seeing is this trend toward the shared economy and a trend toward having more contractors and freelance workers, and just the landscape is just becoming so much more dynamic and distributed. And I think had I known that I would have, maybe, I don’t know, maybe we would not be in this position. Jon Powers: Sure. Well listen, I appreciate all the work you’re doing. We appreciate what The Solar Foundation is doing and I appreciate you joining us here at Experts Only podcast. Andrea Luecke: Well you are so very welcome. Thanks for the opportunity. Jon Powers: Absolutely and again for our listeners you can go to thesolarfoundation.org and get both the job census as well as a lot of great information about best practices regarding diversity. For future episodes please go to cleancapital.com. As always, we look forward to your insights and folks we should be interviewing, and I’d like to thank our our producers, Carly Baton and Darnell Lubin who was an intern helping in our, his final episode. As always we look forward to continuing the conversation. Thank you. Thanks for listening in today’s conversation, find more episodes on cleancapital.com, iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe and leave us a five star review. We look forward to continuing our conversation on energy, innovation and finance with you. [/av_textblock]
This Earth Day, it’s time to do battle for the planet Aerial image of the sky reflected in a South Dakota Prairie Pot-Hole. Since the first Earth Day nearly 50 years ago, this day has served as a celebration of the environment and a reminder of our shared responsibility to protect it. Working in sustainability and clean energy for the past decade, I’ve seen how awareness of our collective environmental impact has dramatically grown. Action, however, has been slower to come. Today, we are already witnessing the impacts of climate change and live under the increasingly ominous cloud of predictions coming from scientists like those at the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, who warn of disaster as early as 2040 if our inaction continues. Shifting attitudes Whether it’s because people are growing frustrated with the baffling lack of action on the federal level, or because more of us are seeing the impacts of climate change firsthand, Americans are signaling that they’re ready to do battle to protect the planet. A recent study by the Yale Climate Communications program found that the proportion of Americans who are alarmed by global warming and would place it among the country’s highest priorities has increased dramatically in the last five years. Listen to our podcast with Anthony Leiserowitz, Director of the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication. Progressive policies On the positive side, consequential initiatives are underway at the state and local level to curb emissions and encourage clean energy innovation. Eleven states, plus Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico, have introduced or enacted 100% renewable energy targets; more than 100 U.S. cities, including Chicago, are also answering the call. And just last week, CleanCapital’s home base of New York City passed a Green New Deal package that “aims to enact the largest carbon reduction measures of any city globally”. Taking the initiative Progress is happening, but we must truly step up and scale solutions to set a path towards a sustainable future. On this Earth Day, please consider what actions you can take on a personal, professional, and political level to combat climate change. To help support policy initiatives that will speed our national transition to clean energy, consider a donation to our friends at Vote Solar, a non-profit that defends and expands solar progress for families, businesses, & communities across the country.
Episode 44: Rob Davis [av_image src=’https://cleancapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/podcast-image-pageheader2.jpg’ attachment=’4329′ attachment_size=’full’ align=’center’ styling=” hover=” link=’page,249′ target=” caption=” font_size=” appearance=” overlay_opacity=’0.4′ overlay_color=’#000000′ overlay_text_color=’#ffffff’ copyright=” animation=’no-animation’ av_uid=’av-jwwgyb48′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”][/av_image] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwwgxszg’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] Episode 44: Rob Davis [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’10’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwl4lsb2′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] This week, Jon Powers speaks with Rob Davis, of Fresh Energy, to discuss the link between pollinator insects and solar energy. This discussion explores bees’ impact on the environment, human agriculture, and how solar farm designs can help a pollinator population in crisis. Rob began his career working with technology start-ups and created the international crowdsourced campaign that launched the Firefox web browser. He now works as Director of the Center for Pollinators in Energy and Fresh Energy where he helps accelerate the nation’s transition to the use of clean and renewable energy. His work on pollinator-friendly solar has been featured in trainings by the U.S. Department of the Interior’s National Conservation Training Center, U.S. Department of Energy, the Electric Power Resource Institute, and the North Carolina Clean Energy Technology Center. [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwwh5253′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] Listen now [/av_textblock] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jwl43nfd’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [/av_textblock] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’20’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_social_share title=’Share this entry’ style=” buttons=” share_facebook=” share_twitter=” share_pinterest=” share_gplus=” share_reddit=” share_linkedin=” share_tumblr=” share_vk=” share_mail=” av-desktop-hide=” av-medium-hide=” av-small-hide=” av-mini-hide=” av_uid=’av-354olk’] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’40’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_button label=’More Podcasts’ link=’page,5266′ link_target=” size=’small’ position=’center’ label_display=” icon_select=’no’ icon=’ue800′ font=’entypo-fontello’ color=’theme-color’ custom_bg=’#444444′ custom_font=’#ffffff’ av_uid=’av-jx1x7jx3′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_hr class=’invisible’ height=’40’ shadow=’no-shadow’ position=’center’ custom_border=’av-border-thin’ custom_width=’50px’ custom_border_color=” custom_margin_top=’30px’ custom_margin_bottom=’30px’ icon_select=’yes’ custom_icon_color=” icon=’ue808′ font=’entypo-fontello’ av_uid=’av-jwwgzkyu’ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] [av_textblock size=” font_color=” color=” av-medium-font-size=” av-small-font-size=” av-mini-font-size=” av_uid=’av-jyemkgb9′ custom_class=” admin_preview_bg=”] Jon Powers: Welcome to Experts Only podcast, sponsored by Clean Capital. You can learn more at cleancapital.com. I’m your host, Jon Powers. Each week, we explore the intersection of energy, innovation, and finance with leaders across the industry. Thank you so much for joining us. Jon Powers: Welcome back to Experts Only podcast. My name’s Jon Powers, your host, and today, we’re speaking with Rob Davis, the Director of the Center for Pollinators in Energy, part of Fresh Energy up in Minnesota. It’s an independent nonprofit organization. We’ll talk more about the amazing mission they have, but Rob is really great at telling the stories of pioneering people, ideas, and organizations, and at Fresh Energy, he’s helping to accelerate the nation’s transition to the use of clean and renewable energy. In this conversation, we’re specifically talking about the role of solar in helping to solve the pollinator crisis within the United States. If you’re not tracking the pollinator crisis, you should be because the honeybees, according to Rob and some of the numbers he puts in our conversation, help bring $15 billion in economic benefits to the agriculture community. It’s critical in a lot of the crops we grow, and bees are at a critical population junction right now because of issues around climate change and the environment and growth of suburban communities. So, solar can play a key role, and we’re going to talk about that today. Jon Powers: Rob, thanks so much for joining us at Experts Only podcast. Rob Davis: Delighted to be with you. Thanks so much. Jon Powers: So, looking your background, you went to school in St. Paul. Did you grow up in Minnesota? Rob Davis: I was born in Fargo, but grew up in Minnesota, and then, I came out to Boston for a couple of years. Spent a couple years living in Germany, had a first child over there. Jon Powers: What were you doing over there? Rob Davis: My wife helped start an English immersion Montessori school, and it was before we had kids. So, we thought, “If not now, when?” It’s nothing like just immersing yourself in another language, in another culture to really force your mind to make connections that it wouldn’t otherwise be making and really put yourself in experience of just being a fish completely out of water. Jon Powers: Yeah. I was stationed over there in the army for four years. So, at some point, we should swap Germany stories. So, you go from St. Paul and Fargo to Boston to Germany. You have a background in communications, right? So, when you came back to the States, what were you doing then? Rob Davis: Well, I’d spent about 15 years helping software and kind of emerging startups go from the garage to that pre-IPO stage. I really get excited about entrepreneurs and the part of the hockey stick where suddenly it goes from something that’s really nerdy and nobody cares about to something that’s immediately relevant to millions and millions of people. I really love that partnering with pioneers to help them tell their stories and connect with larger audiences. So, when I came back from Germany, the startup market was just completely dried up. There was no venture capital money, and went to work with and to lead communications for an art and design firm … excuse me, for an art and design college, and found that geeks have a lot in common with artists. So, then, kind of told the stories of those entrepreneurs for a few years, and then, was recruited by Michael Noble, my current boss at Fresh Energy, who said, “Helping individual companies and individual artists is interesting, but what about doing the same kinds of work for this industry that is just emerging in Minnesota and the Midwest, and that’s the solar energy market?” Jon Powers: Yeah. So, that’s what brought you into solar? It was getting sort of recruited on the communications side. Rob Davis: It was, and it was a really wide open opportunity where Michael said, “What we need is people that are helping identify the problems that we’re going to have in three or four or five years and making sure that we’re laying a groundwork to address those problems in the most authentic and powerful way we possibly can.” And the way that I’ve done communications and marketing and engagement work throughout my career is, really, it’s never been about putting lipstick on a pig. I just always have to say, “Instead of a pig, could we just make a pony or a kitten or a puppy or something?” It’s amazing when you can start at the design stage. If you build a product that naturally sells itself, you just get better results instead of just trying to sell something or spin something that is … It comes across as inauthentic and greenwashing. There’s just a lot of bad PR that’s unfortunately been done over the last dozen years. Jon Powers: Right. Right. And obviously, especially when you have kids, it’s easy to drive yourself around a mission like solar, and we’ll talk more about pollinators here in a minute, but talk for a second about Fresh Energy and your mission there and sort of the efforts that have sort of sprouted since you first started. Rob Davis: Yeah. It was really timed, connecting with Michael and Fresh Energy because we just had our second kid, and it turns out, we know now, that we have pediatric asthma in the family. So, as a two week old, he turned a shade of blue that isn’t compatible with staying alive. So, that really forced us to really examine our own priorities and whether we want, as a family, focused on selling the next widget or if there’s a mission-related work where we could still make a good income in the family, but then, help transform our society and our systems and our economy in ways that we’d get us better air quality and, obviously, more hospitable planet. Fresh Energy has really been an incredibly consistent and high-performing organization over the last 25 years in helping to shape and drive energy policy in a way that is both visionary and practical and is really focused on benefiting all. Rob Davis: So, the organization’s history is really focused on Minnesota. It was Michael Noble and a bunch of environmental allies that got NSP to compromise and say that they will build the first commercial-scale wind farm between California and Denmark. This was back in 1992, ’93, and because of that, now you have Ladner and Mortenson and ATS. All of these are Minnesota companies because they had to figure out how to build giant utility wind farms in Minnesota first, and then, went on to wind projects in Texas and Iowa and then the rest of the world. So, it was clear it was an organization that really looked at ways to use economics to make transformational change, and that was an exciting that I really had to jump at. Jon Powers: So, Fresh Energy’s focus is mostly in Minnesota, but you guys of more national work now as well, right? Rob Davis: Yeah. The organization’s legacy has been entirely focused on Minnesota, but it has increased as the organization’s grown from two, three, four staff back in the ’90s to, now, we have more than 20, 25 people. Jon Powers: Oh, wow. Rob Davis: So, we still have several staff that are focused on energy efficiency and electrification and beneficial electrification, electric vehicles, et cetera, in Minnesota, and then, the work I do has really expanded to be wherever solar sighting and solar design issues are happening. So, it’s very much a national focus for the Center for Pollinators in Energy. Jon Powers: Yeah. So, I want to come back to that in one second, but for folks that aren’t aware, Minnesota has been, really, a leader in solar. When you say that to folks that don’t know solar … and look, we’re doing this interview. I’m calling from Buffalo, New York. So, we’re not in the tropics right now. People are shocked to learn about sort of the leadership that Minnesota has put out there on things like community solar and implementation. What’s driving that, other than Fresh Energy, of course? What is the real spark that’s kept Minnesota driving forward here? Rob Davis: The ethos that Fresh Energy has in approaching challenges is that we never have enemies. We have opponents. We have folks that we have not convinced of our worldview yet. So, it really is an organization that executes on its mission of practical and visionary energy policy, and that really manifests itself in finding nontraditional allies to help build as large a coalition for transformational change as possible. So, starting with the wind energy industry back in the ’90s, that got Xcel. I mean, Xcel Energy has now made these very ambitious commitments to be carbon neutral by 2050, and for more than 10 years, they’ve been bragging and touting the fact that they’ve been a national wind energy leader, and that’s a result of some of this policy work that Fresh Energy and others did back in the ’90s. In 2012, Fresh Energy hadn’t done any work on solar. We really hadn’t spent a dime, and then, we saw the prices falling. Michael did, and my colleagues did, and they thought “This might just be the year and the right time to use some of our unrestricted dollars to really lean forward and get some pragmatic energy policy.” Rob Davis: And so, that year, we passed a solar energy standard, a one-and-a-half percent requirement on the state’s monopolies, as well as a bill that said the monopoly needs to have a community solar program with the following rules, and that community solar program has now gone on to become the most successful community solar program in the country because… Jon Powers: Yeah. It’s incredible. Rob Davis: … no regulatory cap. The size of the program is dictated by what the substations will tolerate, and it was really those two this, the solar energy standard and the community solar program, that had some of our friends and allies call us up and say, “What the heck are you guys doing? Shouldn’t all this solar be on rooftops?” And it happened that these were some farmers out in rural Minnesota that had these questions and concerns for us, and that, obviously, prompted a pretty … That sent a chill down my spine, frankly, because I knew if we had farmers that were opposed to solar, this was going to be a lot more expensive, and we were just not going to have the kinds of change. We just weren’t going to hit the vertical part of that hockey stick that’s really fun. So, we went about figuring out how to address that problem and how we could influence solar farm design to really make sure that a solar farm is designed in a way to meaningfully benefit agriculture and people in real communities. Jon Powers: Yeah. Interesting. So, your role as the Director of the Center for Pollinators in Energy sort of came out of that vision of saying, “How do we address the needs of, for instance, the farmers?” And then, with that, what was the need for pollinators that sort of brought those two design components together? Rob Davis: Yeah. I mean, so, we’re not a pollinator advocacy organization. We’re not a bird advocacy organization. We are an energy policy organization, and so, what we found was, in 2014, when we started this work, was that establishing low-growing flowering meadows under and around solar farms is a pretty common practice in the UK, and it was actually something that was done specifically to address sighting issues, and so, then, we called up those folks and talked to the ecologists and talked to the solar developers and figured out how to interpret and adapt that practice and import it into the United States. Obviously, one of the first things that occurred to us was that, hey, if it’s easy to put a six-by-six pollinator garden in front of the front door of a thousand-acre solar farm, then developers, some developers would prefer that. But the reality is, is that, that’s kind of going back to this lipstick on a pig, and it’s not really providing meaningful benefits. So, two big issues that the folks in agriculture have, and this really surprised us, was that they are really struggling with the topic of how to address the pollinator crisis. Populations of these pollinators are just plummeting. Jon Powers: Add some color to that. What’s the crisis that’s driving this for you? Rob Davis: Yeah. The crisis is that the Obama administration calculated and published research showing that honeybees alone contribute more than $15 billion of economic productivity to the agricultural sector, and that’s just the honeybees, right? So, there’s dozens and dozens and dozens of different kinds of native and wild bees, and people don’t appreciate and really don’t know because it’s not well publicized, but every single one of those clam shells of blueberries is the result of more than 600 individual visits by bees to little flowers during a particular five-week window. And the same is true for almonds. Trillions and trillions and trillions of individual visits by bees to flowers, and that’s true for every single crop that needs pollination, and so, there’s just this huge segment of our economy, of our agricultural economy, that is dependent upon these insects, and unfortunately, humans are really bad at doing pollination, but we’re really good at public policy. So, if we just create a landscape that helps to keep the bees alive, then we will just naturally get those ecosystems services, benefits for free. Jon Powers: And for those that don’t follow this as closely, the demand of those bees is huge. The problem is the supply of them is dwindling significantly because of a variety of environmental issues. We’re not seeing the populations of bees or butterflies, or other things that utilize pollinators are getting squashed right now. Rob Davis: Yeah. That’s exactly right. Because of some changes in the farm bill, we’ve lost more than 10 million acres of conservation land because of the rapid expansion of the suburbs and exurbs. The amount of land that’s going into that kind of development is huge. So, we’re just losing, losing millions of acres of conservation land that should be helping sustain healthy populations of pollinators. I mean, it’s as easy as just going out for a night drive, and if you’re not getting any bugs on your windscreen or on your headlights like it used to happen when we were kids, that’s a sign of a huge, huge problem because you might feel like, “Oh, that’s convenient,” but unfortunately, it’s those insects that are not just pollinating the crops, but they’re, obviously, also … They’re providing the food for all of the songbirds that we love and all of the heritage birds, like the pheasants and the quail. Rob Davis: And so, they’re a valuable and critical part of that ecosystem, and if more and more of them are added to the endangered species act or disappear, we don’t just lose economic opportunity, we incur additional costs on ourselves. And farmers are really struggling with how to deal with that. So, we really have been partnering with them in Minnesota and more and more states to set common, flexible, science-based standards for what constitutes pollinator-friendly within the context of a solar farm. So, it’s been exciting to see that entomologists understand that solar is bringing billions of dollars of investment and that every single one of those solar farm designs could be incrementally improved in a way that is meaningful to be beneficial to pollinators. Jon Powers: So, for those people that aren’t familiar, right, and into this every day, we’ve got solar systems, solar arrays all over the country, commercial industrial sites. Obviously, some are on rooftops. A lot are ground-mounted. We literally have to go and mow the lawn regularly throughout the year. It’s incredibly expensive for a series of reasons. Some of it has to do with people just expect to see … They think the short lawn helps the solar, which is not the case, but what you guys have so wisely discovered is that these are phenomenal opportunities, not just for the pollinators, but for the economics around the systems themselves because they can help lower some of those costs to do this. So, you’ve created a really interesting ecosystem of experts looking at this problem. You’ve got the National Renewable Energy Lab. You’ve got Aragon. Can you talk a little bit about the Inspire Initiative and how you’re seeing more and more folks sort of coming to these policies? Rob Davis: It’s been incredibly exciting to be able to collaborate with Aragon and NREL and the scientists there that are really leading up and have been leading up this effort for a long time. The INSIRE Project, it’s an acronym, of course. It stands for Innovative Site Preparation that Reduces Impacts on the Environment or something along those lines. Jon Powers: Right. Inspire something. Rob Davis: Yeah. Exactly. It’s great, but one of the things it’s really looking at is the idea that a cooler vegetation, thicker vegetation under and around panels can create a cooler microclimate or avoid or prevent the heat island effect in order to help improve solar PV efficiency and potentially get more days of peak production or incrementally more days and more time of solar energy output. So, a cooler microclimate under and around solar farms isn’t really something that you can do in the California and Arizona desert, but when you’ve got high quality, black, arable soils, what an awesome opportunity to design a high performance seed mix that allows you to maximize your generation throughout the sunniest times of the year. Jon Powers: Exciting, and so, both of these, we were talking offline before a little bit about some of the work that Aragon has put into looking at the economic benefits that these bring both to the systems, right, where you have tens of thousands, if not in some cases $100,000 plus, going annually into just mowing the lawn under the system, but also to the community around it. Can you talk a little bit about that? And it sounds like this has spun into work being done at Yale to better understand the long-term benefits of some of that data. Rob Davis: Yeah. The number of kind of ways that a system like this, a vegetative system, a high performance vegetation mix under and around solar farms can provide exciting value, and clearly, it’s not just for wildlife, or it’s not just for managed honeybees. It’s not just, potentially, for the crop benefits that could be around, but if you’re an engineer that’s interested in peak performance, then you should really train yourself up on how the performance of the vegetation under and around the panels can positively influence the engineering of the panels themselves. So, for example, if you put an extra 12 inches of steel and move the panels about a foot higher, that’s going to cost you somewhere between 25 and 35 hundred dollars per foot, per megawatt at today’s prices. However, when you do that, then for the life of the solar project, you’re suddenly allowing the mowers to drive two to five to ten … significantly faster, I guess. Rob Davis: So, one, you’re reducing the mower/solar collisions. You’re reducing the frequency that you have to mow. You’re providing the vegetation company with a more diverse … allowing them to choose a more diverse seed mix that grows a little bit higher because the lower stuff is pretty cheap. You’re allowing a selection of a high performance seed mix that has really deep root systems to better withstand downpours as well as droughts because those deep root systems are adding soil moisture or adding organic matter to the soil, and then, the plants are able to stay alive throughout the drought season because they’ve got increased soil moisture because you’re not selecting a turf grass mix, which has like six-inch deep roots. So, this idea of designing a system is all about low cost, low cost, low cost up front, is really resulting in high cost, high cost, high cost for the life of the project. It’s not too unlike just building a home that’s cheap but not insulating it in Minnesota or in Buffalo. It’s like, “Oh, I got a great deal on a house. I only spent $10,000 and it only cost me $8000 a month in my energy bill.” Jon Powers: Right. Right. That’s a great way of putting it, and it’s not just for new build opportunities, but we at CleanCapital have been looking at how to retrofit our systems with this, and it’s a little bit of a different approach, but when push comes to shove, it’s a lot of the same economics and the benefits. So, Rob, talk for a second. I know you guys are putting on an event at Yale coming up April 1st. I think you’re calling Agrovoltaics. Talk for a second about what’s expected to happen at that event and some of the folks you intend to be there. Rob Davis: Yeah. It’s going to be a fantastic evening. We’ve just got a beautiful room in the Burke Auditorium and space for around 150, and we’ve got Clif Bar and NG and Jordan Macknick from NREL and myself, and then, a number of kind of tabling partners, including the American Solar Grazing Association and the Electric Power Resource Institute and Ernst Pollinator Services that establishes these landscapes. So, it’s going to be a great event. We’re going to be talking about how to maximize agricultural productivity through collocation of different agricultural interests and pollinator friendly solar. So, one of the research projects that was built on some work that Aragon did and done by these four graduate students at the Yale School of Environmental Studies is actually looking at a given amount of land and found that it was a really non-intuitive insight. But they realized that if you take a given amount of land, and you’re already harvesting some crop from that, if you take some of that land “out of production” and put in a solar farm, and then plant pollinator dependent crops or have the farmer or encourage the farmer to plant pollinator dependent crops around the solar farm, then you’re actually increasing the net agricultural yield of that parcel compared to the same site without the solar pollinator landscape. Rob Davis: So, it’s a really interesting way that … I mean, we see a lot of conflict right now, and particularly in kind of farmland constrained states, like Connecticut and Massachusetts, and out here in the Midwest, we’ve got 27 million acres in Minnesota, and Illinois’s got 20 million acres, but Massachusetts, they only have 500,000 acres. So, there’s more conflict between the productive use of farmland and solar development, but what we’re seeing is that, actually, solar farm design can meaningfully increase the productive use of all of the adjacent farmland, and it’s obviously not just the pollinator benefits, but one of the big challenges in agriculture that is even, I guess, nerdier and less sexy than insects and climate change is topsoil loss. And it’s just not well publicized, but the reality is, is that throughout the Midwest and the northeast, current row crops are losing topsoil at a rate of two to five tons per acre per year, and that’s just due to wind and water erosion, two to five tons per acre per year of topsoil loss. And as a solution, of course, it’s very simple. It’s just perennial vegetation, but who’s going to take a crop out of production and put in perennial vegetation? Who’s going to pay for that? Rob Davis: A farmer needs the money, and a pollinator friendly solar farm is a great way to help kind of create a legacy for the next generation of farmers where you might even think, “Oh, well. I’m going to have a rotational solar farm. I’ll have the solar farm here for 20 years or 40 years, and then, I’ll move it to the next land after that because the soil is going to rest and rebuild and really be certifiably organic, high quality soil at the end of that solar lease.” Jon Powers: Rob, this is fascinating. I think it’s important for folks to recognize that this is not just a boutique thing. You’ve got big firms like Cypress Creek doing really innovative stuff here. Obviously, CleanCapital’s trying to take a leadership role and get engaged. Our investment partners at BlackRock are helping us prioritize this within our own efforts. There are serious commitment to this, both because of the ecological, but also the economic benefits that this can drive. So, if you’re a solar developer, or you’re a long-term owner, then how do you get involved? How do you learn more about how you can implement these programs? Rob Davis: So, we have a webinar. I should say, on our website, I’ll give a shortcut, which is just beeslovesolar.org. We’ve recorded more than six or eight hours of webinars, including with the US Department of Interior, US Department of Energy, the North Carolina Clean Energy Tech Center, the International Association of Sustainability Professionals. So, there’s an abundance of material and resources out there, and the key is, is that we have collaborated across the country with the nation’s foremost entomologists and experts, and so, you as a solar company, if you’re our audience, they do not want to be in the position of trying to tell consumers what’s good for pollinators. Solar development firms know what’s good for solar, and that’s where they should stay, which is great, but we, at Fresh Energy, have collaborated with these entomologists and gotten them sign off on these score cards. It’s a really simple one-page tool that helps your vegetation managers design seed mixes so that you can stand shoulder to shoulder with these highly influential entomologists and say, “Hey, the entomologists say that our entire solar project is beneficial to pollinators because we’re doing these one, two, three, four, five things.” So, it’s a flexible and fair tool that allows you to maximize the public benefits, as well as, obviously, get all of these operational benefits really, stormwater and pollinator benefits and soil retention and everything else. Jon Powers: Yeah. Amazing. So, beeslovesolar.org, first of all, it’s amazing that was available, a great address, and if you Google Rob, you’ll find a great Ted Talk he does in Minnesota to keep you motivated. This is an issue, obviously, near and dear to my heart but also something critical for not just industry, but I think we as a nation need to help drive forward. So, Rob, thank you for your leadership on it. One final question I ask all of my folks that join me here at Experts Only, if you could go back to visit yourself in St. Paul when you’re graduating from college or from high school and could sit down and grab coffee, what advice would you give yourself? Rob Davis: Oh, wow. That’s really fun. I would say maybe go to New York instead of Boston. It was great, but this is an exciting time in this work because it’s clear to me. I mean, I’ve been in the wireless industry. I’ve been in the open source industry. I’ve been in the database, cloud computing industry, but it’s clear to me that in three years’ time, solar pollinator for anything on arable farmland is going to be the default. And so, the companies that are moving now are getting a huge competitive advantage because they’re getting projects in the ground. They’re learning from them, and they’re hiring staff that are helping them figure this stuff out. So, if there’s solar companies out there that haven’t yet hired people, hired an intern, hired a graduate student from the Yale School to help them address these questions, they should get on that. Rob Davis: Xcel Energy, we were delighted to partner with them just last Fall, and they said, “Hey, for all of our solar RFPs, we’re going to include, we’re going to require all of those bids to include a copy of the Pollinator Friendly Solar Score Card.” They’re a hugely influential thought leader in terms of where utilities are going, and so, it’s great to partner with them, but also with companies like NG and Eden Renewables and IPS Solar and US Solar and, really, companies that are leaning forward and saying, “Hey, we’re just going to do this everywhere, and if we have to, if we find a landscape where this can’t work, then that’ll be the exception, but we’re going to make solar pollinator the default because that’ll help us win more projects. It’ll help us learn faster, and it’ll make us a better competitor into the future.” Jon Powers: Outstanding, Rob. Thank you so much for joining us. Rob Davis: Great to be with you. Thank you so much. Jon Powers: You can learn more by going to beeslovesolar.org and learn ways to get involved, and as always, you can grab more episodes of Experts Only at CleanCapital’s website, CleanCapital.com. Always looking for advice on folks we should be interviewing, and we’d like to thank our producers, Lauren Glickman, and our intern, Darnell Lubin, for helping to put these episodes together. As always, I look forward to continuing the conversation. Jon Powers: Thanks for listening in today’s conversation. Find more episodes on CleanCapital.com, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe and leave us a five star review. We look forward to continuing our conversation on energy, innovation, and finance with you. [/av_textblock]