Jon Powers: Welcome to Experts Only podcast, sponsored by Clean Capital. You can learn more at cleancapital.com. I’m your host, Jon Powers. Each week. We explore the intersection of energy, innovation, and finance with leaders across the industry. Thank you so much for joining us. Jon Powers: Welcome back to Experts Only, I’m your host, Jon Powers. I have a conversation with fellow Buffalonian and founding executive director of The Solutions Project, Sarah Shanley Hope. Sarah is leading an organization with a vision of 100% clean energy for 100% of the people, and has an incredible track record to help show how they’re working to achieve both of those policies. And they invest in community driven solutions that inspire people with stories for everyday heroes and build strategic relationships with allies across the industry. Jon Powers: Sarah has a really fascinating bio and you’ll hear it come out in the conversations. And also, she’s working really to help drive change in communities that are helping to set the stage for those of us in the industry that are trying to do things like implement projects or push towards that 100% renewable energy goal. I hope you enjoy the conversation. Jon Powers: Sarah, so happy to have you on Experts Only. Thanks so much for joining us. Sarah Shanley: Thank you, Jon, I’m so excited to be here. Jon Powers: As the listeners of this podcast know, I’m a huge advocate for Buffalo. You were born and raised in Buffalo before really starting an amazing career. First of all, how is it being a Bills fan in Oakland? Sarah Shanley: Oh my gosh. I mean, Jon, you started with an assumption. Jon Powers: Oh, no. Oh, no. Sarah Shanley: So I have so much Buffalove and I hustle for Buffalo every chance I get. And my age, I was in middle school when the Bills went to the four Super Bowls in a row. Jon Powers: Oh, same with me, yeah. Sarah Shanley: So I was scarred by the Buffalo Public School superintendent every year promising the next day off of school and every year getting disappointed. Yeah so… Jon Powers: So bad assumption. Sarah Shanley: And football’s not my jam. Jon Powers: Yeah. Okay, there we go. Well, tell me, so you went from Buffalo, you went to school in… I mean, you went to a colder place in Minnesota, in Vassar. In that trap, where along the way did you first really start getting interested in the environment, in climate, and what sort of triggered that? Sarah Shanley: It’s interesting. I wasn’t, to be honest with you. I was super activated, like a lot of people growing up in Buffalo, around social justice and human rights. Jon Powers: You used to take political science, right? Sarah Shanley: I did, I studied political science in college. I went to a City Honors for fifth through 12th grade, so had the kind of magnet school experience. Jon Powers: Oh, you did? Sarah Shanley: Which for those of your listeners who don’t know, there was a successful mandate where racial and gender and social integration was really prioritized back when I was in middle school and grade school and high school, and when I ended up going to one of the best schools, I think, in the country. Jon Powers: Definitely, in the country. Sarah Shanley: Yeah, and those values were really instilled in me. But in terms of environmentalism, it wasn’t until I was working for Van Jones at the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights out here in California. But I was introduced to the environment and climate through a lens of human rights and economic development, and I was in my mid-twenties, and my life changed dramatically. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: I was like, “This is it. This is the call of my generation. This is…” Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: And of course, then I look back and put the pieces together in terms of Lois Gibbs and Love Canal, and the hydropower around Buffalo, New York, with Niagara Falls. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And it was like destiny that my roots had me connected to climate justice and to environmental justice. Jon Powers: Right. Jon Powers: Yeah, it’s interesting though to hear that you came from this… I mean, so many of our listeners came to climate change, are now coming to the sort of environmental justice side, the climate justice side of this. You actually came the other way. You came out of human rights. Sarah Shanley: I did. Jon Powers: Interesting, interesting. Sarah Shanley: I did. Jon Powers: And now, you’re seeing these issues really becoming on the forefront. I mean, it’s almost weekly you’re reading a different story in the New York Times climate section or somewhere else about the effects of not just climate change but the environment on low income communities, on birth rates for minority families. Now, you’ve been working on these- Sarah Shanley: On COVID. Jon Powers: On COVID, yeah. Sarah Shanley: The proximity to pollution and the high instances of asthma in communities of color having a dramatically negative effect in terms of COVID has impact as well. Jon Powers: So, I mean, you’ve been working on this stuff for over a decade, do you want to stand up and just scream, like, “Hey, listen, I’ve been saying this to you people for 10 years.” Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I’m in my early 40s, and I was politicized growing up in Buffalo, and so these issues and understanding the racial injustice in the problem and the racial justice and the solutions has been since I was a kid. But, no, my first response is, “Welcome.” Jon Powers: Yeah, that’s awesome. Sarah Shanley: “Right on time. We need you.” Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: The transformation that’s required is so great and, thankfully, the leadership and the solutions are here, and they’re in frontline communities of color. So more so, my response is, “Welcome. Let’s jump in and get to work.” Jon Powers: That’s great. Jon Powers: What was it like… So I sat at Van Jones’s desk at the White House; he had left just before I got there. What was it like working for him and the amazing things you guys were doing out West? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I’ve learned so much from Van throughout my career, everything from effective communications. Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: There’s a reason why he has a CNN show. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: He is incredibly disciplined and skilled in addition to being naturally predisposed to just reading the room. And what he taught me, I think, is listening, is the first step to effective communications. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And then, yeah, the bringing together of these issues, that they’re one and the same, especially when you think about who’s impacted. Predominantly lower income working families, communities of color, impacted by all of these issues. Jon Powers: Right. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And then the third thing I learned from Van was the human need, let alone the strategic imperative, to focus on solutions. That you can’t just hammer on the problem and solve it, get to the other side, you really have to hold that space for possibility and be creative and generative in where you put your energy. Jon Powers: Yeah, it’s interesting, there’s actually a piece out today from Anthony Leiserowitz at Yale about climate… And there’s a lot of interest about climate communications about storytelling, because I think so many people try to wrap their heads around the bigger issue and can’t get there. But if you can tell some personal stories that can help drive change, it’s very unique. Sarah Shanley: That’s exactly right, yeah. Jon Powers: So you went from Minnesota… What’d you do at Cargill? I saw Cargill in your bio. Sarah Shanley: It is in my bio. So I went actually working for Can and the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights at the time, and this is in early 2000s, really was inspired and motivated to go to business school. So I went to University of Minnesota at the Carlson School, and ended up after business school joining the corporate brand team at Cargill, and it was fascinating. Jon Powers: Interesting. Sarah Shanley: Many parts of that story, to share, in terms of my decision to go, I did not do kind of the traditional interview track at business school, those final months, you’re all going for brand manager jobs, that wasn’t my path. But Van encouraged me, he’s like, “How many of us that are working in social movements and have the value system that I was coming with have the chance to go into these major corporations?” And so I did. Sarah Shanley: And my very first day on the job, I’m driving in my… I had bought myself this at auction, $1,000, little Vulse, and I’m driving, listening to NPR, and there on NPR is the launch of Rainforest Action Network’s agribusiness campaign against Cargill. And Van was actually on the board of RAN at the time, and it was fascinating. I was there for 18 months. Jon Powers: That’s interesting. Sarah Shanley: I was there when Obama was elected. Jon Powers: Oh, wow. Sarah Shanley: And I was pregnant with my first daughter when I ended up leaving, because Van was going to the White House and he was assembling a team at Green for All, to make sure that that mission carried forward and, for a whole host of reasons, took that leap. Jon Powers: That’s amazing. I asked that question because we actually had done a lot with CarVal, which is the private equity family office of Cargill. And they’d never invested in solar before, and now we’ve done over $350 million with them in solar investment. They’re sort of interesting to see the shifts that are happening on some of those larger corporate players. Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Jon Powers: So there’s a lot of other things talk to them about, climate side. Sarah Shanley: That’s phenomenal. Sarah Shanley: And how important the families are in that, right? Jon Powers: Future, yeah. Huge. Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Yeah. Jon Powers: So Green for All, then Alliance for Climate Education, and then these four white guys are launching The Solutions Project with this amazing goal of 100% renewable energy. Was the environmental justice, climate justice piece part of the original mission, or did you bring that with you as you came in and helped take the leadership there? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I definitely brought it with me. And I do make this joke, there were more white guys named Mark than any other demographic when I started at The Solutions Project. And thankfully, they and the board at the time were… They had a lot going for them that gave me signals that we could bring in this racial equity vision and strategy. One, they were not playing small. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: They understood that the moment that we’re in, and this is, again, seven years ago, eight years ago, required bold leadership and vision. So 100% clean energy, Mike Brune, Sierra Club, Gavin Newsom, when he was mayor of San Francisco, laughing them out of the room for this whole vision. So I was like, “These guys are not afraid of transformation.” Sarah Shanley: Two, they already had a multidisciplinary approach. They understood that one theory of change was not going to win, there was no silver bullet. So they had this theory of change that business, science, and culture together brought different gifts and strengths and flanks. Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: And then three, this orientation towards storytelling. They hadn’t yet focused there, but it was definitely a part of what brought them together. So when I came in, it was really offering up a choice point for them. Do you want to add community as the fourth flank? Because here’s my experience, and here’s the landscape, and here’s the hard lessons learned on green jobs. Jon Powers: Right. Right. Sarah Shanley: You got to have community at the center there with business, science, culture, if you want government to follow the leadership, that’s required. And you have to really signal, too, you have to really signal in the vision that this isn’t just about solar panels or wind farms, this is about people. And so 100% clean energy for 100% of people was the second half of the vision that offered up as a choice. Sarah Shanley: And then the third piece, more on putting my marketing hat from Cargill, from business school, is understanding really clearly that messengers matter more than the message. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And who the spokespeople are, who the advocates are that are calling for this big, bold vision of 100% need to reflect the diversity of the coalition constituency population required to win. And so we started a grassroots grant making program that the first intermediary grant making fund focused on climate equity as our first program to really redistribute the resources that we were able to raise. So they said, “Yes, yes, and yes,” to those things and we were off to the races. Jon Powers: Yeah, I want to talk about… First, personally, you went from working in some pretty well established groups, and then you’ve got… I mean, I remember being on the phone for the first time with one of the Marks from The Solution Projects when I was at the White House, and they were talking about 100%, and everyone’s like, “This is great, but how are we going to get there?” Here we are in 2020, and one out of every three Americans lives in a state that’s there. So you took the leap to jump in, what was that decision making process like for you personally that we go all in on this? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I mean, for me personally, I mentioned I wasn’t a clean tech bro. Jon Powers: Right, right. Sarah Shanley: It wasn’t my motivation. And I jumped in because I put it out there of like, “This is my point of view. This is what I’ve learned from my experience. Okay, guys,” and it was overwhelmingly men at the time, and all white people to be totally transparent, “are you into this vision and this strategy that I’m putting forward? And if you’re not, it’s okay.” Jon Powers: Of course, yeah. Sarah Shanley: I wasn’t the executive director at the time, I was a consultant by choice. Jon Powers: Right. Interesting, you consulted first. Sarah Shanley: I recognized- Jon Powers: Yep. Sarah Shanley: I did, and that was a choice. I said to them, “You’re not ready to have an ED because you haven’t sorted out what the ED would be leading towards yet. You have to sort that out first as founders. And if you want me, this is kind of what I bring. And if you don’t want that, totally fine, I can help you find the leader,” and they didn’t. They said, “Yeah, let’s go,” and it’s been really hard. Jon Powers: That’s awesome. Sarah Shanley: So I don’t want to pretend that that personal journey was easy. And I can share whatever you think is relevant to your listeners, but more about just personally I made a lot of mistakes when it got to a place where we had to walk the walk before talking the talk, and seeing where I wasn’t bringing them along the way with me at key moments. Jon Powers: Yeah, that’s interesting. Sarah Shanley: But I have to say, all in all, there’s still a lot of love and trust. And now, Joe Biden, candidate Biden just stated very clearly on the campaign trail a couple weeks ago, his commitment to 100% clean energy. And one of our first things together when I was a consultant was preparing and supporting Mark, Marco, and Mark to go and meet with then VP Biden on 100%. So it’s powerful to be at this point. And I jumped in because I felt like I had the opportunity to apply a lot of really hard lessons learned from Green for All. Jon Powers: So we talked a little bit offline about… I’ve talked on the show before about what the next 10 years look like, and I want to come back to that, but I first want to talk about, your team has played such an instrumental role in setting the stage to the last 10 years to get us to a place where this is no longer a hope, we’ve got a plan and a path to get there. Talk about, what are some of the programs you worked on, from a grant making perspective or just from a strategy perspective, that helped set the stage to get us to where we are in 2020? How did The Solutions Project grow and mature over that time? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, we actually have a case study that’ll be coming out in the next month or so, but I think our decision early on, kind of the first part of our three-part program, the invest part of invest, inspire, connect was huge. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: So it was, first and foremost, like sharing power and recognizing that we had a role to play. But for us to be successful in that role of changing the conditions within which 100% was not just possible but happening and happening at the scale that you just mentioned, one in three Americans, that we first had to give up control. That it wasn’t just about the maps and the scientific pathway there, it was about investing in those frontline organizations who were doing the community organizing, doing the demonstration projects, doing the ground up power building that could affect key policy outcomes at the local and state level. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And then we could tell their stories through Avengers and mainstream media. Yeah, that was really key. Jon Powers: Yeah. For those that aren’t familiar, add some color to the Avengers piece, for the people who may not know this about you guys but they should. Sarah Shanley: And we could fight. Sarah Shanley: And this is a big part of me saying yes to the role at The Solutions Project. Mark Ruffalo, the actor Mark Ruffalo plays the Hulk in the Avengers series, is one of the three Marks that founded The Solutions Project. He is incredible advocate and on our board. He was definitely the one when I said, “What about 100% clean energy for 100% of people?” He was like, “Yes, community for 100% of people. If that’s here, this could be my political home.” Jon Powers: That’s amazing. Sarah Shanley: Yeah, and so partnering with him throughout these years, then he brought in Don Cheadle, who plays War Machine in the Avengers series as well. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: Don’s been on our board for the last two years. Yeah, so we’ve really seen our role as like that culture led narrative strategy for transformative change. And culture, we define as leadership, so that’s a big part of your show here is like leaders of that culture, and then narrative, again, it’s like, how do you reach in to the popular imagination about what’s possible? And there’s no better way than through the Marvel machine. Jon Powers: Right, right. That’s true. Jon Powers: So many folks today in the industry, we’re living in such a fascinating moment, both for climate, but for, I think, economic justice, environmental justice, climate justice. And people sometimes just don’t know what to do, like how to act or what… You saw a lot of companies making statements around some of the Black Lives Matter rallies, and then people would just turn to them on Twitter and be like, “Well, look at your board. Look at all your leadership.” Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Jon Powers: Right? Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Jon Powers: So what advice do you have for some of those firms out there that are trying to get their footing, realizing they may have known this is something they had to do, but for many of them it was at the pile of the list of stuff they could execute for the day, but now it’s rising up to a mission, how do they begin to incorporate that, and how do they take steps forward? Begin to really… I say this about Clean Capital too, we’re exploring this weekly with part of our team. How do you begin to incorporate that into your company culture, into your company mission, and everything? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I mean, this is also going to be a part of the case study that we share, because that is a part of our story is, again, you start three white guys named Mark, and now we’re majority women of color led at the board and the staff, black women in particular. And it is an internal culture change as much as it is a material change out in the world. And the material impact is the most important, that needs to be a company’s or an organization’s North Star. How are your business decisions actually improving the lives of Black indigenous immigrant communities that have been overwhelmingly left out?I think the numbers in the clean tech and venture capital and solar industry are as shocking and horrible as in the nonprofit sector. Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: Less than 1% of philanthropic dollars go to women of color led organizations, is just one of those statistics. And so I do think that getting real about the current state and having courage to share power, to give up that power. So DEI is the acronym, diversity, equity, and inclusion, that most majority white organizations will use to talk about this transformation that has been happening for many, many years, but is particularly acute right now. And from our experience, that’s not the right sequencing, but it’s really equity, diversity, inclusion. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: That you need to, as a white led or white dominant, particularly white male dominant organization or company, you have to demonstrate an understanding and a commitment to equity in order to then attract the talent and retain that diverse talent to your team. That it’s not just lip service. A day off for Juneteenth when you don’t have Black leadership at your company is a flag that you’re not attending to the depth of change that’s really required. Jon Powers: Right. Right. Sarah Shanley: And it is in the business interest. There are so many Harvard Business Review cases or McKinsey reports about the economic benefit, particularly in times of change and crisis and chaos, of racially and gender diversity in a company’s leadership and team. Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: So recognizing that, honoring that. And for The Solutions Project, that was a big marker for our grant making program is we were honoring and recognizing the brilliance of women, women of color, leaders of color in the movement that have been doing this work for a very long time. That The Solutions Project were recognizing that for us to be successful, we actually had to honor their leadership, follow their leadership, and grow together, and that’s ultimately what happened. And thankfully, we have been following through on the D and the I part of that as well, the diversity and inclusion. Jon Powers: Right. Jon Powers: Well, that’s interesting. So if you look at now, look out at the next 10 years, obviously you’ve got the commitments coming out of the Biden campaign, the amazing work recently done by your senator from California, Kamala Harris, on the environmental justice bill. Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Jon Powers: What are the stepping stones and building blocks, I guess, that have to happen over the next two years so that we don’t need to be having this conversation in 2030 because we have a diverse and engaged community within the clean energy climate? Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I mean, I think this is also part of the painful lessons learned from ARRA, from the Recovery Act in Obama’s first term, and I was at Green for All at the time, and you were probably in the White House then. Jon Powers: I was not yet; I had just gone to the Pentagon when it started. Sarah Shanley: Okay, okay. Jon Powers: But yeah, beginning… I actually talk a lot about ARRA on here because I feel it was such an important piece, but there is so much to learn from that that we need to implement next round. Sarah Shanley: Yeah, and I think that’s where we’re really learning those hard lessons and not making the same mistakes in these coming two years. And frankly, it’s regardless of the outcome, it’s looking local and ground up. So if you’re focused on equitable climate solutions, energy access, and energy democracy from the ground up and across the country, getting from one in three Americans living in a place committed to 100% clean energy to one in three Americans actually having their apartments or homes or small businesses powered by affordable clean energy, to close that gap, it’s really about on the ground implementation of these solutions. And the leadership there are overwhelmingly in communities of color. Again, people closest to the problem are the closest to the solutions or the first to the solution. So the more… Jon Powers: I’ll give you an idea. I mean, it’s a case study of where we’ve been trying to find ways to address this and running into roadblocks, right? So what exists today that didn’t exist even really three or four years ago is the idea of community solar, right? Sarah Shanley: Yes. Yeah. Jon Powers: So how do you bring on LMI subscribers and set a mandate within your… If we’re going to acquire and own a project, we want 50% of it owned and subscribed with LMI subscriber choices. Sarah Shanley: Yep. Jon Powers: Like New Jersey has that, or is trying to implement that mandate today. But the tax equity players that finance these deals won’t finance that have LMI subscribers. Sarah Shanley: Yeah, yeah. Jon Powers: So how do you then find ways to incorporate… If there is a new recovery act, which I imagine there will be, ensuring that they’re incentivized or fore-mandated to start to do that? Because I feel like that has been something we talk a lot about, but then when we’ve actually looked at deals that have that, no one will buy into it or take it to fruition. Sarah Shanley: Yeah, I mean, you’re going to have the expertise on what will move market rate capital. From my perspective, again, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel, that the solutions are all around us. We’ve got decades of information and experience around Community Reinvestment Act and now Green Development Zone. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: So there’s a whole spectrum of public-private capital, philanthropic capital braiding that is happening. We’re working with a few corporate leaders in this space who are saying, “We get that the offset market is,” I’m not going to curse again on your show, but, “is not legit.” Jon Powers: No, you can curse. Yeah. Sarah Shanley: It’s like moving paper from one side to the next. We want to actually invest in projects that are going to have these additional benefits of good job creation, of alleviating the health and economic burdens in impacted communities, communities of color. Microsoft just had its big public announcement a couple weeks ago, and it has a clear equity and actual community development commitment. Jon Powers: Huge. Sarah Shanley: So I think those are… Again, when you’re thinking about braiding different capital streams, how does philanthropy step up? Right now, climate funders are way, way, way over index, not just on white male leadership, 80% of philanthropy going to white male Eds, it’s also way over index on a policy theory of change. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: So what happens when some of those dollars move into pre-development on projects or on community solar or even we’ve got incredible grant… And I should say, we’ve got grantee partners in some of the least likely, least resourced places who have been figuring this out, and it is herding cats, and it is down to the 11th hour, PUSH Buffalo is such a great example. Sarah Shanley: School 77, the community solar project bear, first in the state of New York, they were braiding not just three sources of capital, philanthropic, public, private, but also historic site grants, and all sorts of things. Jon Powers: Right, right. Sarah Shanley: But we also have Reverend Leo Woodbury and New Alpha Community Development Corporation in rural South Carolina, Florence, South Carolina, where all LMI African-American subscribers to a utility scale project that the utility really drove, and it’s been in operation for more than a year. Groundswell out of Washington, DC, we funded their work in LaGrange, Georgia, for solar development on affordable housing. There are… Jon Powers: By the way, the person I had at my desk after Van was Michelle, who runs Groundswell. Sarah Shanley: Oh, yeah, Michelle Moore. We’re mixed all together a lot. Jon Powers: Michelle’s one of my very good friends. Sarah Shanley: Excellent. Jon Powers: Tell her I said hello. Sarah Shanley: So I mean, that’s a great example. We don’t have to dig very far to find people who have a part of the puzzle here. Jon Powers: Yeah. Sarah Shanley: It’s just understanding that we need to look in a different direction than we have been looking in the past. Jon Powers: If there was a call to action for our listeners, who could go to thesolutionproject.org, or whatever their key next steps are, what would you tell them to do? Sarah Shanley: I mean, this is something that Don Cheadle and our board… Jon Powers: Other than donate, of course. You should definitely donate. Sarah Shanley: Yes, we definitely want you to donate to The Solutions Project. Hit me up directly, we can put big money to really big impact through The Solutions Project and our network of dozens of frontline grantee organizations. But Don Cheadle on our board frequently has this quote, which is a Too Short quote, so I’m a ’90s hiphop head, and called, “Get in where you fit in,” and I think that’s important right now. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: I see a lot of, particularly white, environmentalist leaders, who are new to the racial justice conversation, feeling overwhelmed, like they have to take on… They’re used to being number one at the top of leadership, and so that’s the only thing that they think they can do is lead the charge. Well, there are so many ways to lead, so many ways to lead, and sometimes that’s calling the person that you have authentic relationship with who’s a few steps ahead on the path. Sarah Shanley: And again, the path, I would say, the call to action is look out where it’s working locally, ground up, and where there are examples of people’s lives improving through climate solutions, and figure out… Get in where you fit in there, because the return on your dollar, on your hour, on your energy is so great. Jon Powers: Right. Sarah Shanley: And we welcome you to come and join us in moving money, media, and momentum to frontline climate solutions. Jon Powers: I love it. Jon Powers: Money, media, and momentum, I like that. Sarah Shanley: Yeah. Jon Powers: That’s your branding background right there. Sarah Shanley: That’s a Van Jones training right there. Jon Powers: Is it? Jon Powers: So I challenge our listeners to go to thesolutionsproject.org. You can get all the stuff and you can definitely donate there. Sarah, one question I ask all folks on the show. You go back to yourself coming out of City Honors and sit down and have coffee, what advice would you give yourself? Sarah Shanley: Oh, don’t be so afraid. Jon Powers: Oh, that’s great. Sarah Shanley: Don’t be so afraid. Mistakes are human and every day, and the worst mistake is not doing something or saying something that your heart is really calling you to do. Jon Powers: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Sarah Shanley: Thank you. Thank you, Jon, for having me on. Jon Powers: I want to thank the staff at The Solutions Project and thank our producers, Carly Batten and Courtney Flynn, for helping to put this together. As always, you can get more episodes at cleancapital.com, and we really look forward to continuing the conversation. Thanks. Jon Powers: Thanks for listening in today’s conversation. Find more episodes on cleancapital.com, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe and leave us a five star review. We look forward to continuing our conversation on energy, innovation, and finance with you.